Colloidal Silver and Gold Forum

Production Techniques and Chemistry => Colloidal Silver Production => Topic started by: MomRosie on June 11, 2018, 02:47:34 AM

Title: Maltodextrin
Post by: MomRosie on June 11, 2018, 02:47:34 AM
Hi friends-

I just can't seem to find a post listing the amounts (literally I need the measurement amounts) of maltodextrin to use as a stabilizer/reducing agent when making colloidal silver over 40ppm.

And at what ppm is it not strong enough to be a stabilizer and gelatin needs to be used?

And if I'm using it to stabilize and reduce, do I double the amount?

If my understanding is flawed please tell me where I need to read to learn.

Thank you
Title: Re: Maltodextrin
Post by: cfnisbet on June 11, 2018, 10:20:32 AM
Kephra will no doubt give more accurate figures, but I can help you with the amounts that I use.

I would first suggest that anything over 80ppm would really benefit from the use of gelatine as a capping agent.

If you increase the amount of Distilled Water, you need to increase the amount of Maltodextrin, but use the same amount of electrolyte. I use 1 ml of 0.1M Maltodextrin in 3 litres of DW, with the intention of making 20 ppm Colloidal Silver. This is not much, but it reduces the Ionic Silver Oxide beautifully and the end result is crystal clear. I find that Maltodextrin is far better than Glucose or Fructose, which both tend to result in some level of turbidity.

To make a 0.1 Molar solution of Maltodextrin, dissolve 5.05 grams of Maltodextrin powder in 100ml of distilled water. It dissolves very easily. The amount of reducing agent is not critical, so you could use a few drops of this 0.1 molar solution in a litre. Below this amount of Distilled Water (ie if you are only making 250 mls of colloidal silver) then the same few drops would be fine.
Title: Re: Maltodextrin
Post by: Cher Sherwood on June 11, 2018, 03:11:36 PM
I've been wondering, if anything over 80ppm is better off gelatine capped, why not just always use gelatine, even for under 80ppm? I'm glad this came up today as I keep meaning to ask.
Title: Re: Maltodextrin
Post by: kephra on June 11, 2018, 03:23:57 PM
Even if you gelatin cap, you still have to use karo or maltodextrin, since gelatin is not a good reducing agent.  Gelatin is only a (very good) stabilizer.
Title: Re: Maltodextrin
Post by: cfnisbet on June 11, 2018, 04:44:09 PM
I've been wondering, if anything over 80ppm is better off gelatine capped, why not just always use gelatine, even for under 80ppm? I'm glad this came up today as I keep meaning to ask.
It would be nice if there was "one item to rule them all" but there is an additional reason to not use gelatine for the lower ppm batches. It has not yet been established (yet) that gelatine-capped Colloidal Silver is useful for external purposes. The gelatine-capped Colloidal Silver is designed for internal use, and is excellent for that. There is a lot of discussion about which version is best for external use, but the same gelatine that keeps the Colloidal Silver from being destroyed internally by stomach acid, is the same chemical which may stop or reduce the effectiveness of Colloidal Silver on external injuries.

I use any version except gelatine-capped Colloidal Silver for external use, and cinnamon-capped or gelatine-capped internally, with a preference for the gelatine by a long way. The strength of the Colloidal Silver is a completely separate issue. 20ppm is a great combination of effectiveness and stability. I suppose this does not exactly answer your question but there is nothing to digest the gelatine off from the Colloidal Silver particles in an external injury.
Title: Re: Maltodextrin
Post by: Dean on June 12, 2018, 02:21:07 PM
Hi friends-

I just can't seem to find a post listing the amounts (literally I need the measurement amounts) of maltodextrin to use as a stabilizer/reducing agent when making colloidal silver over 40ppm.

And at what ppm is it not strong enough to be a stabilizer and gelatin needs to be used?

And if I'm using it to stabilize and reduce, do I double the amount?

If my understanding is flawed please tell me where I need to read to learn.

Thank you

Hi MomRosie,

I'm not sure if this helps you or answers your question directly. I have put this up before but it's a calculator I created
to work stuff out for myself and it kind of grew and grew.
Wayne has version that is not Microsoft so if you don't have or use excel, and run this, it may not present or function as it
does if it's opened and used in MS Excel. but its here for anyone that wants it.

As threads tend to get buried quite quickly here I tend to "bump" it's existence for new users or forum members who may not be
aware of it that's all.

If you have any difficulty let me know. I could possibly mail it to you somehow.
But have a look and see if helps.

I can't even recall if it's totally finished so take the blood volume thing with a pinch of salt. It's still a bit of a work in progress.


Its natively a Excel 2010 workbook. and is my Silver Assistant!


https://www.dropbox.com/s/43jnmzh32o4k8ss/Calculator%20V2.01.xlsx?dl=0
Title: Re: Maltodextrin
Post by: MomRosie on June 12, 2018, 11:52:34 PM

Thank you Dean, I appreciate the link.

 Unfortunately, I can't change any of the field boxes.
Title: Re: Maltodextrin
Post by: Cher Sherwood on June 13, 2018, 04:11:35 PM
Hey Dean, it must be because I am on a Mac, but I can't change any of the drop down boxes to see what the actual amounts of maltodextrin to help MomRosie out with definitive amounts to put in as a reducer for different volumes of water.

Neat idea with the chart though!

Title: Re: Maltodextrin
Post by: Bobby on June 13, 2018, 05:08:45 PM
Rosi and Cher,

  Download EXCEL from the Apple App Store.  When you hit the link Dean gave tell it to open in Excel and your good to go.

Bobby
Title: Re: Maltodextrin
Post by: Argentum on July 13, 2018, 03:22:25 AM
Got my hands on some maltodextrin. I must say that it produces a very clear (non-turbid) and a slightly lighter shade of Colloidal Silver (40 PPM, gelatine capped). Before this I was using Karo light corn syrup (w/fructose added), and always had a hint of turbidity.

A question: is the reducing agent a catalyst, or does it gets used up in the reduction? From my reading here it appears that it gets used up.

The reason I ask is that in this thread the recommended amount of maltodextrin to use varies greatly. From 0.017 grams per liter (cfnisbet) to  0.5 grams per liter (Dean).

I used the 1/2 gram per liter in the batches, just to be sure it reduced OK. But it seems to impart a strange taste to the Colloidal Silver. Thanks.

Argentum
Title: Re: Maltodextrin
Post by: emanwols on July 13, 2018, 09:18:10 AM
Got my hands on some maltodextrin. I must say that it produces a very clear (non-turbid) and a slightly lighter shade of colloidal silver (40 PPM, gelatine capped). Before this I was using Karo light corn syrup (w/fructose added), and always had a hint of turbidity.

A question: is the reducing agent a catalyst, or does it gets used up in the reduction? From my reading here it appears that it gets used up.

The reason I ask is that in this thread the recommended amount of maltodextrin to use varies greatly. From 0.017 grams per liter (cfnisbet) to  0.5 grams per liter (Dean).

I used the 1/2 gram per liter in the batches, just to be sure it reduced OK. But it seems to impart a strange taste to the colloidal silver. Thanks.

Argentum
https://www.cgcsforum.org/index.php?topic=3713.0
This shows that too much reducing agent has no detrimental effect
I use 1tsp per 5400ml batch i produce to 40ppm
Title: Re: Maltodextrin
Post by: kephra on July 13, 2018, 11:20:35 AM
Quote
A question: is the reducing agent a catalyst, or does it gets used up in the reduction? From my reading here it appears that it gets used up.
It gets used up, in that the maltodextrin loses its reducing power by being oxidized by the silver.  For one thing to be reduced, something else must be oxidized.
Title: Re: Maltodextrin
Post by: Argentum on July 13, 2018, 05:31:37 PM
https://www.cgcsforum.org/index.php?topic=3713.0
This shows that too much reducing agent has no detrimental effect
I use 1tsp per 5400ml batch i produce to 40ppm

That would be about 0.57 grams per liter. I weighed 1 tsp at 3.1 grams, +- 0.1 g. Which is in line with what Dean recommends.

Using too much may not be detrimental to reducing the CD. But using 0.5 gram per liter does impart a strange flavor to it.

Used Karo in the past and the Colloidal Silver tasted like nothing. Just the way distilled water with agNP should taste.

I'm running a batch now, going to use about 0.1 grams of maltodextrin.

Argentum
Title: Re: Maltodextrin
Post by: Argentum on July 13, 2018, 05:34:58 PM
Quote
A question: is the reducing agent a catalyst, or does it gets used up in the reduction? From my reading here it appears that it gets used up.
It gets used up, in that the maltodextrin loses its reducing power by being oxidized by the silver.  For one thing to be reduced, something else must be oxidized.

That is what I thought, thank you for verifying.

Argentum
Title: Re: Maltodextrin
Post by: Argentum on July 18, 2018, 12:38:24 PM
So... using the approximately 0.1 gram of maltodextrin per liter works. Ended up as the same color as when using 0.5 grams. But with a much lower strange taste to it, barely noticeable.

Argentum
Title: Re: Maltodextrin
Post by: FromTheDen on July 20, 2018, 10:32:29 PM
I would go with Dean's calculator amount.

There was an old post (now removed) that suggested that ~1tsp/liter for 320ppm should be sufficient. I used that for a long time, but I found that I was getting silver oxide coming out of the solution. I was using distilled water jugs for storage, and I noticed that if I kept ionic silver in one, the jug would discolor with the grey silver oxide. When I kept my 20ppm diluted gelatin capped maltodextrin reduced colloidal silver in a distilled water jug, it also got the silver oxide on the sides.

When Dean published his calculator (tyvm!), a liter of 320ppm calls for 4,275mg maltodextrin, which is about 2tsps, or twice what I was using. Now if I store my diluted 20ppm in a distilled water jug, it no longer discolors the jug with silver oxide. What that's telling me is that I was not initially using enough maltodextrin to fully reduce my colloidal silver.

Yes, it definitely has a taste (I'm glad to hear others get the same), but it is also fully reduced. The taste is more noticeable when I use 320ppm straight for brushing my teeth, but much less so diluted to 20ppm for drinking. I always figured the sodium carbonate may be lending itself to the taste too.
Title: Re: Maltodextrin
Post by: Dean on August 01, 2018, 11:55:25 PM
https://www.cgcsforum.org/index.php?topic=3713.0
This shows that too much reducing agent has no detrimental effect
I use 1tsp per 5400ml batch i produce to 40ppm

That would be about 0.57 grams per liter. I weighed 1 tsp at 3.1 grams, +- 0.1 g. Which is in line with what Dean recommends.

Using too much may not be detrimental to reducing the CD. But using 0.5 gram per liter does impart a strange flavor to it.

Used Karo in the past and the colloidal silver tasted like nothing. Just the way distilled water with agNP should taste.

I'm running a batch now, going to use about 0.1 grams of maltodextrin.

Argentum

I think the calc for maltodextrin is based on an "enough" basis. Given that malto does not have a fixed number of glucose molecules.
Because it varies, there was a whole big thing about this when Wayne was creating his version of the calculator.
I think I just took the sums that Kephra advised as being the most typical to be enough.

I guess if "a lot" is used then you will start to get the taste of it (or perhaps the unused element) once all siler has "made use" of the malto it needs. But once there is nothing else to reduce then your malto will just be flavouring the water!

Hello everybody peeps by the way.!
Am still on a long journey of industrial revolution at work but didn't want yous all to think I've deserted!  :D :D
Most definitely haven't, but very much struggling with some mighty big issues so my humblest apologies for being gone too long!

Title: Re: Maltodextrin
Post by: Bobby on August 03, 2018, 05:36:54 AM
  I have to agree with Dean. With the variance in glucose molecules per the brand or even the variances in batches of each brand of maltodextrin.  Like Kephra says better safe than sorry! 

  Maybe somebody can come up with an add in flavor with no side effects on the colloidal silver.  Vanilla would work for me. But if your using diluted 320 then why not add the flavor you want?  Any thoughts??

Bobby
Title: Re: Maltodextrin
Post by: AVPX1 on April 20, 2022, 04:03:03 PM
I have put this up before but it's a calculator I created
to work stuff out for myself and it kind of grew and grew.


Its natively a Excel 2010 workbook. and is my Silver Assistant!


https://www.dropbox.com/s/43jnmzh32o4k8ss/Calculator%20V2.01.xlsx?dl=0

Does anyone have a copy of this excel based calculator? It no longer exists at the above location.
Title: Re: Maltodextrin
Post by: tbrod on April 20, 2022, 07:01:40 PM
  LOL just checked >>>This item was deleted
You might be able to find it in your deleted files. If it's not there, try asking the person who shared it with you.

I have put this up before but it's a calculator I created
to work stuff out for myself and it kind of grew and grew.


Its natively a Excel 2010 workbook. and is my Silver Assistant!


https://www.dropbox.com/s/43jnmzh32o4k8ss/Calculator%20V2.01.xlsx?dl=0

Does anyone have a copy of this excel based calculator? It no longer exists at the above location.
Title: Re: Maltodextrin
Post by: AVPX1 on April 20, 2022, 07:35:13 PM
llau attached a version (not sure if edited from Dean's or not) to the below post.
Looks good to me or at least a great place to start.

Hi all,
I share this calculator in order to test it.
Can you tell me if it is useful or has any error?

Regards!!  ;)

https://www.cgcsforum.org/index.php?topic=4014.15#msg46093 (https://www.cgcsforum.org/index.php?topic=4014.15#msg46093)
Title: Re: Maltodextrin
Post by: Silvertime on April 21, 2022, 02:06:39 PM
What is the shelf life of colloidal silver with Maltodextrin? Does it spoil because of sugars and germs? Some suggested that it be stored in the refrigerator for only 7 days for drinking. Or use it externally. What are your suggestions and opinions?
Title: Re: Maltodextrin
Post by: kephra on April 21, 2022, 03:08:01 PM
What is the shelf life of colloidal silver with Maltodextrin? Does it spoil because of sugars and germs? Some suggested that it be stored in the refrigerator for only 7 days for drinking. Or use it externally. What are your suggestions and opinions?
The shelf life of maltodextrin or karo, or any sugar reduced Colloidal Silver depends on your production technique.  I have 20ppm Karo reduced Colloidal Silver that is now 10 years old and still perfect.  Your next to the best chance of long term storage is to make sure your container is sterilized and your Colloidal Silver is brought up to boiling.  Your best chance is to pressure can your Colloidal Silver, which is certainly time consuming and requires special equipment.  Pressure canning heats the Colloidal Silver well above boiling, so kills any organisms capable of surviving boiling temperature.  Colloidal Silver is so easy to make that i have never been concerned about long term storage but I have kept samples that I made over the years.
Title: Re: Maltodextrin
Post by: Silvertime on April 22, 2022, 03:48:54 AM
Thank you kephra. That was helpful.
I have an Instagram page in Arabic SilverTimeKsa about papillomavirus and warts, and share scientific studies on nano silver in general in the medical field.  Over the course of 4 years I have personally supervised over 120 people using colloidal silver as a drink and as a gel.  For two to three months, more than 80% were cured after hospitals were unable to treat them. Several women obtained negative results of HPV tests after using silver because they were free of HPV in the cervix, after the results of the tests were positive months ago that they contracted the virus and changed  Cervical cells.  Colloidal silver reversed the results of recovery and the mutated cells disappeared, thank God.  Of course silver was for sterilization against the virus.  In addition to laser cautery or hydrogen freezing to remove warts, at medical clinics near them.  Some have told me about the disappearance of tumors after using silver gel without any surgical intervention, but this does not happen to everyone.  Several studies have confirmed the ability of nano-silver to stop the growth of tumors and even destroy them.  Users I have supervised have told me that they have cured of diabetic ulcers, vaginal ulcers, and E.coli (some).  Stop the irritation of herpes, syphilis, colon infections... Thank you for building this forum and the time you spend on it and the knowledge you spread. I ask God to make it in the balance of your good deeds.