Colloidal Silver and Gold Forum

Production Techniques and Chemistry => Colloidal Silver Production => Topic started by: WayneInPHX on February 07, 2017, 09:54:45 AM

Title: Maltodextrin tidbits
Post by: WayneInPHX on February 07, 2017, 09:54:45 AM
After doing a lot of calculation work regarding my Maltodextrin calculator, I realize that my "comments' tags in it represent some decent info. SO, here it is:

A single molecule of Glucose has TWO binding points in its molecular chain.  1 Molecule of glucose reduces 2 atoms of silver oxide.
Although Maltodextrin can have 3 to 17 glucose molecules in each Maltodextrin molecule, ONLY the last one in the chain of the Maltodextrin molecule is available to reduce.

Maltodextrin is a weird animal.  It does not have a constant molecular weight from one molecule to the next.  That’s not to say that a bag of it in your hand is magically changing before your eyes.  Each molecule can have a different length of glucose chains ranging from  3 to 17.  Because of this we need to “guess” at the weight.  Different sources would appear to have chains within a certain range. When you buy a new bag, it may vary greatly from your previous stock, requiring a adjustment. Because of this, I would NOT mix old with new.  For the same reasons, you may find that two different sources “taste” significantly sweeter/less sweet.  It is that chain length thing that will be the cause. Just remember that each time you purchase some, adjustments may be needed.

Maltodextrin consists of D-glucose units connected in chains of variable length. The glucose units are primarily linked with α(1→4) glycosidic bonds. Maltodextrin is typically composed of a mixture of chains that vary from three to seventeen glucose units in length.  Only the last molecule in the chain actually does the reduction.

A real laboratory derivation of the Dextrose equivalent requires testing a sample.  Though it is a fairly simple process, the mathematical formulas are complex and equipment needed is expensive.

Whether 3, 17 or anything in between, only the last molecule in the each chain reduces 2 silver ions, meaning that each Maltodextrin molecule, regardless of how many Glucose molecules exist in it, can only reduce two atoms.

As you can see from sequence below, The midpoint is 10, and 8 is slightly less than halfway between the mid and lowest molecule number.  Seems a reasonable WAG to start with.


# of Molecules

   17
   16
   15
   14
   13
   12
   11
   10     ← midpoint
     9
     8     ← good starting point
     7
     6
     5
     4
     3
Title: Re: Maltodextrin tidbits
Post by: Dean on February 07, 2017, 11:59:36 PM
Thanks for the info wayne,

I appreciate the considerable effort you've put into this.
Having fun with the calculator and working on a version for excel users when time allows.
I have a little plan for it too to help me track my batches. I hope you like it.

You've actually solved a problem for me with this as I didn't have a lot of success with malto in the first instance. Now getting some cracking jars knocked out. Super super consistent! Pretty damn clear too.

You'd never even know they weren't the same batch dropped into 2 jars they are that consistent !

So really really appreciate your effort on helping me get to grips with this !

Take care my friend :-)
Title: Re: Maltodextrin tidbits
Post by: WayneInPHX on February 08, 2017, 02:29:59 AM
Thanks for the info wayne,...

I appreciate the considerable effort you've put into this...

So really really appreciate your effort on helping me get to grips with this !

Take care my friend :-)

You're Welcome!

I think I might be going peculiar...  Evey time I turn around I think of something to add. :P
What I'm toying with next is a dynamic CHART showing at what times your production solution passes a particular PPM amount.  In other words, PPM over time.
AAHHHHHHHHhHHhHh!!!   Someone throw me a rope!...... with a noose!  LOL
Title: Re: Maltodextrin tidbits
Post by: Bobby on February 08, 2017, 04:24:48 AM
Hey Dean, 

 Do you mind sharing your formulas.

Bobby
Title: Re: Maltodextrin tidbits
Post by: Dean on February 09, 2017, 12:00:50 AM
Hi Bobby,

NO! NO BOBBY! They are mine! You cannot have them! I love them, they are my babies, they live in a dark place covered with lead, an old blanket, wooden pallets and a rotting banana skin to ward off evil spirits who seek to challenge their very existence. If ANYONE should stumble across them, they will surely perish amidst the greatness that is Kephra, Lord of our black art and keeper of the book that becomes us ONLY when winter mists descend this earth and Stir the giants of wisdom.

NEVER! Let word or deed by hand of man dissolve the spirit of mans endeavour OR be divided among greater warriors that seek to learn from greatness that steals our broken heart for THIS day! THIS day! THIS DAY LEAVETH ME WEAK WITH ENVY ! Charting my course through formidable enemies!

And so it is said, my art thou shall not be deprived this awesome power that has befallen me this day.
For is it not 20 parts in 1 million that be done simply cold but not of freezing temperature, only tepid as the day provides lest no more heat be brought to bear upon this jar of mine!

Always but 1 litre giveth me consistency for that I seek each batch upon it.
Dripping always 1vial of the speed demon that doth speed up production of this serum!
1ml lot doth make it right and correctness of this wonder powder mixed with water pure in content giveth me the result that is needed.

For 40 particles in 1 million again shall I add more heat than allows me to collect with bear hand from a magical heating device with flashing lights and beeping its completion. But beyond 40 degrees C may no man travel without risk of gravely turbid times ahead !

But for simplicity and whimsical fascination doth we try to provide convenience for our patrons.
Consumed by hours of endless fire cleaning to rid the Gods of destruction.
Adding but 32 drops of Beauty does the solution begin and end with success.
No more than that which requires a stable work from which to forge this black gold that is our silver!
But with heat that cannot be touched nor held would man be taken In by such foolishness!

5 long hours should pass my eyes before the land falls silent and capped silver may linger in a jar especially prepared for longer times than concentrations low may be wisly avoided !

Take heed Bobby, each man and woman alone can master such wizardry !
Yet no man or woman is permitted to see inward where understanding lets us down save for the All seeing God  that is

Kephra, Keeper of the Book!
Title: Re: Maltodextrin tidbits
Post by: Bobby on February 09, 2017, 03:11:52 AM
Dean,

  I too have seen the flashing of lights with strange sounds coming forth from a mysterious magic box.  It has been rumored that Kephra the Great is the only being that has the knowledge and the wonderous skills to construct such a magical box! 

  But I must pursue this course if I am ever to call myself a man!  I must face the flashing of the lights and the strange sounds that cometh forth.  I must fight back the fear of losing my sight or never being able to hear the sweet sound of my wench's voice again.  I refuse to believeth that such dangers would come forth from such a device made for the betterment of man. The drive to hold in my hands the power that this box contains is overwhelming.  I MUST COMPLY!
 
  Dean, Thankest thou for imparting such ancient wisdom upon one so lowly and profane as I.  I inquire this of you, not to anger thee, but only that ye my be able to share the accumulated knowledge ye have gained through dedication to the art of silver manipulation.  May the great Kephra grant me the wisdom to decipher the mysteries ye have imparted unto me!

  Bobby

BTW, This is about as good as it gets from a dyslexic Okie.
 
Title: Re: Maltodextrin tidbits
Post by: Dean on February 09, 2017, 07:29:29 AM
Aaah! Bobby my child, you speaketh well my child.
It is clear in mind and spirt that thou hast indeed become a believer. And trough that spirit the child becometh a man without boundary. Seeking power through the tree of knowledge that is Kephra our Lord supreme.

For it is in his name that we quench our thirst to damn the actions of of the non-believers! Fear not of losing sight for sight comes from within. Is deed not greater than the power of the word! Or is power of the word our salvation through these dark and wretched times.

Come Bobby, walk with me as we gather armies of those who too, will gather their own armies. For in the name of Kephra, keeper of the book, I bound you, go forth, and openingly seek vengeance against these heathens !

Let foul deed rot in the bowels of damnation! Let those who seek to cast aspersions be devoured by colour of blue race that shall become them ! Magnificently and foolishly setting themselves apart openly for our wonderment that such foolishness shall forever define them and never leave their wretched skins.

Hail Kephra, oh lord of the book, silent and unanimous are we in our solidarity to your greater power!
Spare the stupidity of those amongst us that dwell Not in logic and grateful understanding but in greed and hunger. emblazon their idiocy through writings that shall become us !
Until they creep away to the rocks from whence they came!

This secret Bobby, this secret you have surely shown to be worthy of receipt. For you have proven fielty to Kephra and I shall indeed willingly share. But not this moment as work and commitment to others awaits me this morn. Go, go now and ready yourself for a great awakening as shall I that indeed metal chariots that I long to banish from this existence that I have been forced to adopt shall be forever banished one day.

And when our doors are looked, and light is dimmed, food is eaten and loved ones cared for Then, THEN Bobby, I shall indeed impart the knowledge that has consumed me!
Title: Re: Maltodextrin tidbits
Post by: Bobby on February 10, 2017, 03:10:55 AM
  Master Dean, as I rest in the chilled yet comfortable surroundings of my meager place of dwelling, I long for the coming of the great yellow star in the morning!  It's light that turneth the skies blue, but just for awhile before the great silver winged birds streak across the heavens leaving them looking dull with grey unnatural colors.  I fear that I loseth hope for that very brightness that makes one want to explore, to the ends of this very earth, every mystery that hideth from mine eyes.

  I ponder the far off enchantments of your homeland.  Whereth ye spendth thou evenings with one's bride.  With the protective howling of mans beast helps to bring forth the comfort and safety in the evening whilst thee share great words of wisdom with the children of your clan!

  As I wondered over the scroll ye have unselfishly prepared for me, after I braisingly ask for enchantments and spells which I have no earthly claim to, I find I am truly honored with your most telling response.  I agree that a single deed is much greater than many words.  Intent to help is far more heroic than the partaking of unseemly acts! Therefore as we navigate through the deceit and misgivings of many who seeketh the ancient knowledge, that we ourselves have been shown by Kephra the great keeper of such knowledge, we must be diligent in our vetting!

  Ye must at all cost discourage these scoundrels, who prey on the uninformed ones, seeking the wonderous benefits of this magical silver elixir from leading them into a permanent blue world from which there is no escape.  The Argyrians as they are known throughout the lands are not seekers of the truest knowledge of this suspended silver tonic.  They are but poor misguided souls, doomed to wonder this world in the flesh of a blue Gin.  Even tho their linage is not from such a spirit, they are doomed no less!

  I now bring to a close this humbled response to the Great Dean, of the clan of Imagers.  Creators of the lasting visions of man and beast!  Who's very talents capture the colors the elixir of this silver drink .  I admire the one with Ye talents over such a mystical art!

  But we must always remember, lest we forget, the one who is the forefather of that which we all pursue with undying loyalty the magical and fleeting art of brewing the elixir of health and wellbeing...Cheers to Great the Kephra, Keeper of the Knowledge!

  Good Day
Title: Re: Maltodextrin tidbits
Post by: kephra on February 10, 2017, 03:29:10 AM
OMG. you guys are cracking me up!
Title: Re: Maltodextrin tidbits
Post by: Dean on February 10, 2017, 11:05:08 AM
For Suth!

Bobby, Lest I have not an oasis before me!
Truth in scripture hath coveted us this day!

For it is true! Hail Kephra! keeper of all knowledge, All powerful Master from our great homeland Silvertron!
Where Argyrians hath no place, like a burden we seek to banish from our very thoughts! That we prey that they may one day join us, anointed not with falsehood from brown or colored bottle. Can it be so that ye hath spoken willingly and favorably this day. Despite my humble status, as servant NE disciple!

What honor thou hast bestowed upon us with such caring greatness that we endeavor to mimic with others of
our intention and belief in your image.

Bobby, your urgency to learn is a precious gift, lose it not my child, for without it you aspire to nothing!
Must doubt now surely wither and die, crippled by the sanctity that has been written for 3000 years before us. That the Gods truly walk among us. Ne that THE God has chosen this, our forum, to reveal himself selflessly day after day!

Run my child, run like the wind, emblazoned with fire cleaned anode held with vice like grip and protected with glove or blackened pincer from stores that you keep outside your living spaces. Where no child can reach behind locked and covered door. To the magical place that scripture has brought to bear where temperature greater than the rising blue skies and lowly covered rooms that you call home shall provide. Where food is sacrificed freely and heat applied from uncovered vent with dial of power that increases immeasurably with each and every turn!  For it is said Bobby, when strength of solution shall be greater than this that can freely touch your lips without dilution HOLD FAST BOBBY! Beyond 20, beyond 30, Ne at 40 parts in 1 million all anodes that befall us must surely be purified this way. To rid your solution of the impurity that Kephra our Lord and master has decreed shall cause you turbid times! Where lowly power from your contraption may seek to run free beyond the marker of 10, Thou shalt not use wire BOBBY! WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE!
for this power doth not suffice or quench our needs! For Kephra our great Lord has asserted and thou shalt follow willingly ! Lest you be cast out with blown up flashing lights and solution that doth not mirror the solution in his image!

This clause doth begin my teachings handed down that I shall entrust to you my child.

Go now, Find your loved ones and speak of this to them. Let them also learn and understand......

I leave you with this morsel.
Cleanliness is surely next to Godliness.
Ensure always that your vessel be pure and anointed with water as pure as the heat that comes from the Fireball you speak of that rises each morning. That without such diligence, turbid times may surely follow.
For it is this that begins the lifting of your blindness AND THE BLINDNESS OF THOSE AROUND YOU!

Here end'ith the first lesson!
   
Title: Re: Maltodextrin tidbits
Post by: WayneInPHX on February 11, 2017, 09:25:14 AM
Epic , guys... ;D

This could takes some time...


Lemme guess, One or both of you are into renaissance faires...

Title: Re: Maltodextrin tidbits
Post by: Bobby on February 11, 2017, 07:00:21 PM
Nay I say nay to the man in the land of PHX who calls himself Wayne!  I no nothing of such things. Renascence fairs ye say?  I knowth of fair damsels, but non in distress.  If it were so I would smit such a scoundrel with my bear hands!  I needth nothing else because he is not a true man but a worm that I will trample beneath my boot!

  It was unintended this hi jacking of ye post.  This calculator you speakth of is beyond my understanding.  And the powder it referth to seems magical in its abilities.  Abilities which I have yet to control.  But I say yea, I will not let this strange dust defeat me.  With the help of this calculator I may yet command this dust.  By all means continueth with your work, but beware of that which makes one peculiar!  As this would be a great loss to the ones who seek the magic of the silver water. 

  Go swiftly now Wayne in PHX and work in peace!
Title: Re: Maltodextrin tidbits
Post by: simyacı on March 12, 2020, 04:18:52 PM
After doing a lot of calculation work regarding my Maltodextrin calculator, I realize that my "comments' tags in it represent some decent info. SO, here it is:

A single molecule of Glucose has TWO binding points in its molecular chain.  1 Molecule of glucose reduces 2 atoms of silver oxide.
Although Maltodextrin can have 3 to 17 glucose molecules in each Maltodextrin molecule, ONLY the last one in the chain of the Maltodextrin molecule is available to reduce.

Maltodextrin is a weird animal.  It does not have a constant molecular weight from one molecule to the next.  That’s not to say that a bag of it in your hand is magically changing before your eyes.  Each molecule can have a different length of glucose chains ranging from  3 to 17.  Because of this we need to “guess” at the weight.  Different sources would appear to have chains within a certain range. When you buy a new bag, it may vary greatly from your previous stock, requiring a adjustment. Because of this, I would NOT mix old with new.  For the same reasons, you may find that two different sources “taste” significantly sweeter/less sweet.  It is that chain length thing that will be the cause. Just remember that each time you purchase some, adjustments may be needed.

Maltodextrin consists of D-glucose units connected in chains of variable length. The glucose units are primarily linked with α(1→4) glycosidic bonds. Maltodextrin is typically composed of a mixture of chains that vary from three to seventeen glucose units in length.  Only the last molecule in the chain actually does the reduction.

A real laboratory derivation of the Dextrose equivalent requires testing a sample.  Though it is a fairly simple process, the mathematical formulas are complex and equipment needed is expensive.

Whether 3, 17 or anything in between, only the last molecule in the each chain reduces 2 silver ions, meaning that each Maltodextrin molecule, regardless of how many Glucose molecules exist in it, can only reduce two atoms.

As you can see from sequence below, The midpoint is 10, and 8 is slightly less than halfway between the mid and lowest molecule number.  Seems a reasonable WAG to start with.


# of Molecules

   17
   16
   15
   14
   13
   12
   11
   10     ← midpoint
     9
     8     ← good starting point
     7
     6
     5
     4
     3

Hello, as a result, how much maltodextrin should be put for 1 lt?
Title: Re: Maltodextrin tidbits
Post by: Gene on March 12, 2020, 05:43:27 PM
Kephra's equation to determine the weight of maltodextrin to use (and this works for ANY malto, regardless it being mixed bag or fixed DE number, including CarboGain) is

PPM * Volume(liters) * 0.014

So say you're making 80PPM and a liter of it, you'd need the following amount of malto to guarantee a full reduction to Colloidal Silver:

80 * 1 * 0.014 = 1.12 grams

As Kephra has said, some here have used less and gotten away with it but in the grand scheme of things, WHY risk it?  A bit more malto is NOT going to hurt anything.  If anything, it'll add more stability to the Colloidal Silver (longevity).

If you haven't bought any malto yet, you might look to a home beer/wine brewing supply shop.  Malto is used in some beer recipes to impart a creamy mouth-feel to the beer. I bought a pound in the US from such a shop. I don't think I paid much more than $3 for it.  Thats a many lifetime supply unless you're making swimming pools fully of Colloidal Silver (wink).

Given the amount you need, I use plain old Karo for reducing that which I intend to gel cap immediately after production.

Its not that you can't use the continuous production method (adding ALL the reducer up front before you start the run) and simply that Karo isn't a good stabilizer for PPM's over about 20. Thing is, it'll reduce fine at higher PPMs (I make 120 regularly).  The gelatine is necessary though to both coat the particles so they get through the stomach unaffected for near 100% absorption AND to work as a seriously good stabilizer.
Title: Re: Maltodextrin tidbits
Post by: Turbidaceous on March 12, 2020, 07:43:33 PM
I went with 1.2 grams for 1L 80ppm and it seems great to me.
Title: Re: Maltodextrin tidbits
Post by: Dean on March 18, 2020, 09:00:07 PM
I only make 40ppm and 320ppm
I use 0.6g for the 40 and 4g for the 320.
Comes out perfectly every time.

Many times mentioned is that more will not be an issue, just makes your silver a bit sweeter if you have more reducer in there than there is silver
for any given ppm. Think of it as "unused reducing agent" I suppose!  8)
Title: Re: Maltodextrin tidbits
Post by: dimoune on March 18, 2020, 10:46:23 PM
Can I use maltose as a substitute for maltodextrin?
Title: Re: Maltodextrin tidbits
Post by: Gene on March 18, 2020, 11:03:03 PM
Maltose looks to be a glucose chain of 2 molecules of glucose. I'm not sure this is the same structure as maltodextrin (it too is a chain of some number of glucose molecules where only the one on one of the ends can reduce - same with maltose).

Karo is 30% glucose, 30% maltos, the rest water.

You can buy maltodextrine as Carbogain.  If you have a home beer brewing supply shop nearby, call them. There's a pretty good chance they'll have it as its used in beer brewing for some recipes to give the finished product a creamy mouth-feel.

Thats where I got mine. IIRC it was around $3 for a pound which is a lifetime supply (at least for me). Carbogain is way more expensive.
Title: Re: Maltodextrin tidbits
Post by: indocomp on August 05, 2021, 10:27:01 AM
I am planning to use only a magnetic steering with maltodextrin to get the best ppm i could get ( refer to 100ppm possible with heating and steering method using malltodextrin )
If i prepared it by heating it up at the beginning using my electric stove to 150F (maltodextrin in DW solution before start the electrolysis)
and start the process with magnetic steering at around 15mA, what is the maximum solution i can get with that methods?
Can i get up to 50ppm just with steering and without further heating treament?
NO heating afterwards during the process or after the process
Im sorry i asked so many question without experimenting , hopefully it will help me make a judgement to start my first batch
Thanks
Title: Re: Maltodextrin tidbits
Post by: Gene on August 05, 2021, 11:27:31 PM
I make 80PPM "naked" (no gelatine) every so often for topical, stomach (gelatine is digested in the small intestine, not the stomach (why we use it) so its ineffective against stomach ailments and cuts/wounds.

I run 10ma (silver wire - can bump this to 15-20ma with a bullion bar), no stirring, 150F on a hotplate, maltodextrin (Karo isn't good for anything "naked" over 20PPM but if you're gel-capping, I routinely make 120PPM-160PPM just find reducing with it).

Yes, if you're going over 20PPM you MUST add the reducer at the start of the run because of the solubility limit of silver oxide in water. You need to reduce it to Colloidal Silver as quickly as you can to keep the PPM below the limit at whatever temp you're running.  At 150F its around 40PPM but no one has an accurate statement of why so its only a guide.
Title: Re: Maltodextrin tidbits
Post by: indocomp on August 23, 2021, 05:21:46 AM
hi guys , i want to ask, in previous articles maltodextrin better use for lung infection or external use, but i want to ask if its possible for internal use or oral use if only use maltodextrin specially for chicken broiler,  i am aiming to kill e coli inside the chicken from food , drink and other contaminations

gel capped definitely is a must for human but how about chicken?
maybe the chicken has less chloride or stomach acid compare with human?

thanks
Title: Re: Maltodextrin tidbits
Post by: kephra on August 23, 2021, 06:51:06 AM
Quote
gel capped definitely is a must for human but how about chicken?
Gel capped is not a must for humans, and I doubt it is for chickens either.
Title: Re: Maltodextrin tidbits
Post by: indocomp on August 23, 2021, 07:48:08 AM
"so using maltodextrin as capping agent also safe for oral take?
drinking use, does not have to be gel-capped right?"

Correct, and birds such as chickens have a crop, through which some uptake may also take place.
Title: Re: Maltodextrin tidbits
Post by: Gene on August 23, 2021, 09:48:44 PM
All capping agents/reducers we use are safe for humans to ingest.

Gelatine provides a very strong stabilizer that keeps the silver particles tiny and keeps the Colloidal Silver good for a very long time.

Karo works well but only for PPM's of 20 or less though it works well into the higher PPM's IF you're going to then gel-cap as the gelatine becomes the strong stabilizer, which Karo isn't. Above that, for non-gel-capped, use maltodextrin as its a MUCH better stabilizer.

I've never made malto reduced non-gel-capped higher than 80PPM so I can't say how high you can go and keep it stable and good for years but I've had 80PPM that still looks like the day I've made it for years.

And yes, if you prefer, you can use malto as the reducing agent for gel-capped. I've taken it as high as 120PPM and it seems to work well.

There is some research that suggests adding gelatine at the beginning of a higher PPM run yields SMALLER silver particles, closer to 10nm, which is better.  I tried it recently instead of adding it after the run and I'm hooked.  The result is MUCH clearer and very transparent compared to what I get when I add the gelatine after.  The talk that the gelatine slows down reduction may be over-stated unless this applies mostly to higher current, higher PPM runs.  The runs I did were at 7.5ma to 120PPM and it may have slowed down reduction a little for being in solution from the beginning of the run but from my observation, not by a whole lot.  I also didn't have to do any flame cleaning of my anode half way through the run. This too might be more applicable to the "on the road to 320PPM" path (wink) and I have no desire nor need to ever make 320PPM.  120PPM is plenty good enough for my needs.

Gelatine is also a better stabilizer and the human stomach does not digest nor manipulate protein, which gelatine is (no, vegetable gelatine will NOT work) so everything you ingested gets into the small intestine where a couple enzymes digest the protein and let out the silver to be absorbed.

100% or nearly so of what you ingested makes it into the small intestine though there is no easy way to ascertain what the actual absorption rate into the blood is though given non-gel-capped has been shown to have as much as 25% of the particles agglomerate (stick together) into much larger "chunks" that are not absorb-able, due to the actions of the stomach, if you can get all of it into the small intestine without changing the particle size, which is what gelatine affords you, you stand to absorb a goodly amount of that 25% you'd have lost in the stomach with non-gel-capped.
Title: Re: Maltodextrin tidbits
Post by: indocomp on August 24, 2021, 08:16:16 AM
hi gene, when you did 120 ppm , you add both malto and gelatine at the beginning and only heating it right?

im gonna go for 20 ppm and malto at the moment and feed it to my chicken at 1:10 dilution ratio, hopefully the 25 percent of the particles get lower rate of aglomeration because i think birds is different with human

this is my 1 litre 18 ppm result using  maltodextrin 0.3 gram and 0.5 gram looks same for me
Title: Re: Maltodextrin tidbits
Post by: Gene on August 25, 2021, 05:41:35 AM
When I make gel-capped, I just use 50:50 karo as a reducer and add that and the gelatine up front.  Karo will reduce just fine and its easy to use. Its just not a good stabilizer up over 20PPM which the gelatine fixes just fine.

The formula for malto is:

PPM * volume(liters) * 14.194 = malto (in milligrams)

The reason for so much is because you can't (at least not in the US) buy single DE number malto (meaning its all the exact same molecular weight) where all we can get is unnumbered "mixed bag" which could be all over the place so the above number guarantees that you get enough with mixed bag malto and yes, you need a lot more.

The DE number stands for dextrose equivalent (wikipedia.com I believe explains it if you look up maltodextrin).

https://www.cgcsforum.org/index.php?topic=2546.msg21231#msg21231

Which explains things.  288.88/20 = 14.194 - thats where that comes from.

20mg of silver is 1 liter of 20PPM. Thats why the formula is PPM * volume(Liters) which could be rewritten as silver(milligrams) * 14.194

If you're making non-gel-capped Colloidal Silver, I prefer malto even at 20PPM. Though you get a slightly darker final color, its also really crystal clear (at least for me).  I always process at a higher temp (150F) but then I rarely if ever make 20PPM anymore.
Title: Re: Maltodextrin tidbits
Post by: openminded on October 21, 2022, 01:58:27 AM
Hi,

I am a non scientific person, and trying to read up as much as possible to learn making colloidal silver and a bit confused in

Gene's post # 13 it says:

Quote
PPM * Volume(liters) * 0.014

So say you're making 80PPM and a liter of it, you'd need the following amount of malto to guarantee a full reduction to Colloidal Silver:

80 * 1 * 0.014 = 1.12 grams




Gene's post # 25 it says:

Quote
The formula for malto is:

PPM * volume(liters) * 14.194 = malto (in milligrams)



The confusion come from:

1. Two different formulas
2. The first formula says its for any malto

Is it possible, someone can help me to understand?

Thanks


Title: Re: Maltodextrin tidbits
Post by: Gene on October 21, 2022, 07:14:35 AM
No its not 2 different formulas. Its the same formula. The first provides results in grams where the second provides results in milligrams.

The constant 14.194 was computed by another individual (there's a whole post he made about it though I don't have the link handy) to account for the worst case.

With maltodextrin, there is an associated "DE" number (dextrose equivalency).  Maltodextrin varies from chains of glucose molecules (dextrose - has 2 different names) maybe 3 long to 20 or more.  The longer the chain, the more weight in maltodextrin you need because each chain has exactly ONE reducing group at one end of the chain which can reduce exactly 1 silver oxide molecule so necessarily, if all you have is the heaviests weight malto, you need a lot more malto for a given PPM to reduce it properly.

You "can" buy single DE rated malto but not from inexpensive sources (at least in the US). You'd have to buy them from a chemical supply house.

The more commonly available malto (carbogain or maltodextrin that can be had from a home beer brewing supply shop for cheap) are all mixed bag (random, unspecified mixes of various DE number maltos) where no one knows or documents the mix. So, all you can do is assume the worst (you got a bag full of the longest malto - highest DE number - you can get) where you need the most malto weight to reduce the PPM of silver oxide you want to.  That constant is 14.194.  The 0.014 in the first formula was I think stated elsewhere by another individual and  I think I found the whole scientific analysis post after this and learned the exact constant of 14.194 so thats what I use now.

Just so its said, the reason you can buy maltodextrin from a home beer brewing supply shop is because for some beer recipes, they add malto to impart a creamy mouthfeel to the beer.  I bought a pound this way years ago and at the time IIRC, it cost me all of $3 US. Thats a ten+ lifetime supply (wink).

Hopefully this all makes sense to you now.

Title: Re: Maltodextrin tidbits
Post by: kephra on October 21, 2022, 03:23:30 PM
Everything Gene said is true, but unnecessary.  Just add 1/2 teaspoon per liter of water.  There is a minimum amount necessary, but extra does not hurt anything.
I never weigh maltodextrin.  I only weigh things which must be accurate, like sodium carbonate to make electrolyte.  But if you want to do the calcs, and weight the powder,  thats ok too.
Title: Re: Maltodextrin tidbits
Post by: openminded on October 22, 2022, 04:48:00 PM
Hi,

Thank you for the replies.

Gene, I didn't even see the "grams" & "milligrams", will make a point to note that in the future.  I think I will get it, its a  steep learning curve.  Thank you .

Kephra, thank you, I appreciate you sharing how you measure it.

Thank you

Title: Re: Maltodextrin tidbits
Post by: Cyberman on December 10, 2022, 11:07:45 PM
Thanks