Author Topic: Tests of different Colloidal Silvers dissolved in Simulated Gastric Fluid  (Read 24138 times)

fishing4fun

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Very good scratch that one off the list, thanks for updating

Offline PeterXXL

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New test - colloidal silver capped with Alginate (Sodium Alginate) and then dissolved into Simulated Gastric Fluid.

First, I made a new batch of simulated gastric fluid, now with more Pepsin as follows…
 
450 ml deionized water + 2000 mg (2 gram) sodium chloride + 1600 mg (1.6 gram) Pepsin and during constant stirring at 37 degree Celsius. Added more water til a full 500 ml. I checked the pH with a pH-meter and added 30% hydrochloric acid til I got a pH of 1.3 at the temperature 37 C.
From a previously made batch of 320 ppm colloidal silver reduced with cinnamon extract.

I took 5 ml of the 320 ppm colloidal silver + 75 ml de-ionized water = 80 ml of 20 ppm (dilluted 320 : 20 as 16 : 1).
Heated the 80 ml of 20 ppm colloidal silver to about 40 degree C, then added 200 mg sodium alginate under constant stirring for about 10 minutes and heated to 40 degree Celsius (to make it dissolve easier). Note: this was my 2nd test, as I before that made a mistake and took too much alginate (500 mg) and tried to dissolve it in room-tempered solution, and it just made sections of gel and did not dissolved even though it was under constant stirring. And it took a long time to clean the flask, as the gel sticked to the glass).

Here's a picture of the 320 ppm Cinnamon reduced to 80 ml of 20 ppm dilluted colloidal silver that was capped 200 mg sodium alginate:  http://oi61.tinypic.com/4rt3rq.jpg

My comments: Somewhat oily consistence. It look darker than 20 ppm, but this is due to the Cinnamon extract, as all cinnamon reduced colloidal silver is darker in color.

I then took 50 ml of the simulated gastric fluid, heated it to 37 degree Celsius, and added 5 ml of the above 20 ppm colloidal silver (which now had cooled down to room-temperature), during constant stirring. No color change. Waited 10 minutes to see if the color changed – no change. Added 5 ml more of the colloidal silver above, constant stirring at 37 C, a darker yellow now due to the higher concentration of colloidal silver. Waited 10 minutes while constant stirring. No change in color, and no turbidity.

Here's a picture taken about 1 minuter after that the last 5 ml (10 ml in total) was added to the 37 C gastric fluid => http://oi60.tinypic.com/2d1sq2p.jpg

My comments: No change in color or turbidity.

Here's yet another picture, now after about 30 minutes => http://oi62.tinypic.com/iy0tvr.jpg

My comments: Simulated gastric fluid is not a clear fluid like water, and this picture also reflects this. However, there's never a change in color or turbidity from that I poured the colloidal silver into the gastric fluid and later on, which confirms that the alginate withstands the gastric fluid (compared to previous test when the colloidal silver has not been capped, and the silver nanoparticles turns into silver chloride in contact with the gastric fluid.

So, sodium alginate is a good capping agent. But 200 mg of sodium alginate for 80 ml of 20 ppm is too much. So I will make more tests and try with less alginate.

I also tasted the 20 ppm alginate-capped colloidal silver, and it smells as the uncapped Cinnamon-reduced colloidal silver (no added smell), and no actual taste except the feeling that comes from drinking little tasteless oil (a sensation that that some of the oil remains on the tongue) 
« Last Edit: July 09, 2015, 12:00:00 PM by PeterXXL »

Offline kephra

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Very good.
Have you considered that alginates and pectins are chelating agents and as such may not release the silver allowing it to be effective?  Also, alginates are not effectively digested either in the stomach, or the small intestine.  Do you think this will adversely affect the usefulness of alginate capped silver nanoparticles?

Quote from: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7942583
The effect of alginate on ileostomy excretion of sterols and nutrients was investigated in six ileostomy subjects fed a constant low-fiber diet with or without supplementation with 7.5 g sodium alginate. A mean of 95% of uronic acids derived from the sodium alginate was recovered in the ileostomy contents. Supplementation with alginate increased fat excretion by 140% and decreased bile acids excretion by 12%. Sodium and potassium excretion were significantly increased whereas starch and nitrogen excretion were unchanged. Five of six subjects showed a decreased apparent absorption of iron and manganese with alginate, which, however, was not statistically significant. Absorption of phosphorus, calcium, magnesium, and zinc were unchanged. Almost no digestion of sodium alginate occurs in the stomach and small intestine. The increased fatty acids excretion may be explained by the binding or trapping of fatty acids in the gel matrix formed by alginate, which may also cause a reduced bile flow.
There is the unknown and the unknowable.  It's a wise man who knows the difference.

fishing4fun

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Very good.
Have you considered that alginates and pectins are chelating agents and as such may not release the silver allowing it to be effective?  Also, alginates are not effectively digested either in the stomach, or the small intestine.  Do you think this will adversely affect the usefulness of alginate capped silver nanoparticles?



That is a good question for sure, if that study was done in 1994 i would assume that there is more current information out, maybe more advanced equipment used now, a lot can be found in 20+ years etc... for sure something to look into.


Offline PeterXXL

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Yes, this is my only concern - that the capping is too effective, so that so that it cannot be removed and it passes through the body unharmed, and so will also the silver nano particles leave the body. I think that we need to search and find evidence for the uncapping of alginates.

A Google search resulted in this...

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/7489102_Design_and_delivery_of_silver_sulfadiazine_from_alginate_microspheres-impregnated_collagen_scaffold

...which confirms that "silver sulfadiazine capped with alginates" at least in-vitro test shows that it uncapes, but that it takes time.... quote: "...In vitro drug release studies from the scaffold showed an initial burst release of 47.5% and a controlled release for 72 h with equilibrium concentration of 68.8%...." end quote.

...and this...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2695966/

...which confirms that alginate capping will be uncapped withinm the body... quote: "...Alginates are seaweed derived, gel-forming polysaccharides composed of chains of alternating α-L-guluronic acid and β-D-mannuronic acid residues [11]. Gelation is controlled by chelation between the carboxyl groups of α-L-guluronic acid with calcium, or barium ions, or poly(L-lysine) [12,13]. Alginate hydrogels have been extensively investigated due to their biocompatibility, however, they are unstable in physiological environments since phosphate and citrate ions can extract Ca
[size=0.8461em]2+[/size] from the alginate and liquefy the system. Another drawback of using alginate gels as drug delivery carriers is their low mechanical strength. One approach to overcome these limitations is to coat the alginate hydrogels with various polymers to stabilize the hydrogels and to slow the release of encapsulated macromolecules..." end quote.

...and this...

http://www.google.com/patents/US8168224

..which confirms that sodium alginate can be used as a "drug carrier" quote: "...is a good targeting medication for embolism treatment and immunochemotherapy and is safe and effective for the treatment of solid tumors including primary liver cancer, lung cancer, renal tumors, bladder cancer, uterine cancer, ovary cancer, colon carcinoma and rectal cancer..." end quote.


....and this...

http://journals.itb.ac.id/index.php/jmfs/article/download/494/794

...which describes the "Synthesis of Alginate-Capped Silver-Nanoparticles"... and confirms, that alginate solution also can be used as a reducing agent heated in a microwave owen, as well as heating to 70 - 80 degrees Celsius, but required a minimum of pH 9. So it's not a very effective reducing agent. But reducing and stabilizing it using sodium alginate with microwaves at pH 9 or 10 made spherical shaped nanoparticles that had a size of 3.5 nm and it only took 2 minutes (see Table 2 last line).

And there's a lot more to read.


Very good.
Have you considered that alginates and pectins are chelating agents and as such may not release the silver allowing it to be effective?  Also, alginates are not effectively digested either in the stomach, or the small intestine.  Do you think this will adversely affect the usefulness of alginate capped silver nanoparticles?

<snip>
 Almost no digestion of sodium alginate occurs in the stomach and small intestine.
<snip>
« Last Edit: July 10, 2015, 12:25:44 AM by PeterXXL »

SanchoPanza

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Nice Peter!
I'm with you both, in thinking that if a capping is too effective, the silver might never be effective.
Brilliant find!  Thanks.

-Sancho

Offline PeterXXL

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I have read through lots of of texts on the net about alginates and sodium alginate, and can conclude that all alginates are not easily degradable in the body. A complete degradation of alginates requires the enzyme alginase, which all mammals lack. Some degradation occurs in water, which makes it useful for slowly releasing drug within the body.

So I think that alginates (sodium alginate) then is best to make gel of high concentrated reduced colloidal silver for the use on wounds, and not as the best choice as capping agent for drinking, unless

Offline kephra

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Yeah, too slow.  Careful measurements of transit time in my digestive tract using corn as a tracer reveals a total transit time of less than 24 hours.
There is the unknown and the unknowable.  It's a wise man who knows the difference.

Offline RickinWI

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LOL,  Corn as a tracer.  That's funny.  Careful Measurements.

On a serious note: does anyone think that there is any concern that a gelatin cap might not be fully digested off of the silver particles in the time it is in the small intestine?
So many VARIABLES & so little TIME.

Offline kephra

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Cosidering that many drugs are dispensed in gelatin caps, I think it is not an issue.
There is the unknown and the unknowable.  It's a wise man who knows the difference.

Offline RickinWI

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True, at least Big Pharma did one thing to help us. (I bet that would irk them  :) )

I would imagine they spent millions studying that.
So many VARIABLES & so little TIME.

SanchoPanza

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Yeah, too slow.  Careful measurements of transit time in my digestive tract using corn as a tracer reveals a total transit time of less than 24 hours.



Seems like an effective cap should be designed to insure release well within 24 hours then?
What is the ideal time? 1 hour? 4 hours? 12?

-Sancho

Offline cfnisbet

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I don't think it matters except in a scientific curiosity sense. Your body is neatly and elegantly designed to absorb all required nutrients in the time that it takes to go through the system.

As poisons are also unfortunately absorbed in the same way, then colloidal silver will be also absorbed in a like manner. There is a website for a colloidal silver manufacturer which poses an interesting question that he feels is being ignored by other websites. His idea is that rectal infusion is far better and faster than oral consumption. This would be acceptable in France, where a high proportion of drugs are prescribed in this form. In the majority of other countries, there is an understandable reluctance to use this method of administration, when oral administration works adequately.

I am unsure if this is a worthy line of enquiry...

SanchoPanza

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I don't think it matters except in a scientific curiosity sense. Your body is neatly and elegantly designed to absorb all required nutrients in the time that it takes to go through the system.

Silver is a foreign metal there, rather than a required nutrient.
The body is also able to expel/mitigate/neutralize invaders, quite elegantly.

Quote
As poisons are also unfortunately absorbed in the same way, then colloidal silver will be also absorbed in a like manner. There is a website for a colloidal silver manufacturer which poses an interesting question that he feels is being ignored by other websites. His idea is that rectal infusion is far better and faster than oral consumption.

OK,...I'm out.   ;)


-Sancho

Offline RickinWI

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I think our gel-cap is probably digested off very quickly once it hits the right digestive enzymes in the small intestine. Think of the thickness of a gel-cap put out by big pharma. Now compare it to the thickness of our gelatin (theoretically 1 molecule thick?) on a silver particle.

I assume silver particles are readily absorbed by the small intestine. Not positive about the % of absorption but I think I remember hearing between 60 and 80%?

I know the "back door method" would not go over very well with my friends & family that use colloidal silver. I have a rough time convincing people that they should drink a glass of water a few minutes before consuming the colloidal silver. Now that I am gel-capping everything for drinking I don't have to worry about them following instructions as much.
So many VARIABLES & so little TIME.