Author Topic: sodium carbonate taste  (Read 696 times)

Offline dimoune

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sodium carbonate taste
« on: April 15, 2020, 02:38:11 PM »
Hello all,

I make fine 20 ppm colloidal silver but the problem I encounter is with the sodium carbonate electrolyte. It has a soapy taste. I use no more than 1M per liter. The sodium carbonate I prepared myself by baking sodium bicarbonate in the oven.

Today I made a test and mix 108 mg of my sodium carbonate in 1 liter of plain water and I could feel the soapy taste and burning caustic soda taste in my mouth.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2020, 04:27:26 PM by dimoune »

RedDogJT

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Re: sodium carbonate taste
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2020, 05:20:49 PM »
 ???Interesting comment.  I'm a newbie here also, but I purchased a food grade version of Sodium Carbonate, and made my first batch of 20ppm, Karo reduced and capped silver.  As stated in all these wonderful articles here, it should have no taste, and mine did not. Thankfully.  I hope you figure this out.

Offline dimoune

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Re: sodium carbonate taste
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2020, 06:01:29 PM »
In 12 years on this forum, you are the first to claim this.  I have to suspect you grossly misweighed the sodium carbonate.

I use a jeweler scale to measure the sodium carbonate and it shows 0.11 gm and I mix it in 1 liter of plain water. It is a tiny amount.

Offline dimoune

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Re: sodium carbonate taste
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2020, 07:26:36 PM »
Was it distilled water?

No the test was not with distilled water though, but I have similar soapy taste when I make my Colloidal Silver with steam distilled water. This is why I wanted to test directly the taste of the electrolyte when I mix with plain water to rule out any possible causes.

Could it be that people on the forum make higher ppm Colloidal Silver and when they dilute it down to 20 ppm it cuts the soapy and caustic taste?

Offline dimoune

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Re: sodium carbonate taste
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2020, 07:46:42 PM »
No.  I make 20 ppm all the time and its not soapy and has no caustic taste. 
Since you are the only person in twelve years to report this, I can only believe that you are doing something different.

I want to try with ash soda. Is pool ash soda safe?

Can borax be used as an electrolyte?

Thanks.

Offline cfnisbet

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Re: sodium carbonate taste
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2020, 07:48:59 PM »
No. use sodium carbonate. [Almost] anything else will make ionic silver salts.

[I must clarify this on the grounds of honest transmission of information; Sodium hydroxide will work as well as sodium carbonate, in fact it was the original electrolyte selected by Kephra for the manufacture of Colloidal Silver. However, it is highly caustic and also has a further risk associated with it; if you get a "burn" from caustic soda/lye/sodium hydroxide (alternative names for the same thing) it does not hurt until the damage is done.

I still have a scar on my left middle finger where I was cleaning a surface with NaOH and there was a tiny hole in my glove. By the time I realised it, there was a raw exposed area where the body fats in my skin had been dissolved.

WE NO LONGER RECOMMEND THE USE OF SODIUM HYDROXIDE AS AN ELECTROLYTE, despite it being a valid, working substance to use as an electrolyte, due to the excessive danger associated with this product.

I have also amended the main thread on hos to make Colloidal Silver.

You have been warned!]
« Last Edit: April 16, 2020, 10:51:44 AM by cfnisbet »

Offline dimoune

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Re: sodium carbonate taste
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2020, 07:58:11 PM »
No. use sodium carbonate. Anything else will make ionic silver salts.

What about sodium hydroxide (lye)?

dimoune is correct. I have amended the post above on the grounds that this forum does not tolerate censorship and that this should apply to me as well as everyone else; but be advised of the warning.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2020, 10:53:55 AM by cfnisbet »

Offline chrisflhtc

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Re: sodium carbonate taste
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2020, 08:38:10 PM »
No to lye again NO!

Offline cfnisbet

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Re: sodium carbonate taste
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2020, 09:07:05 PM »
No. use sodium carbonate. Anything else will make ionic silver salts.

What about sodium hydroxide (lye)?
This does work, it was the original electrolyte that we used to recommend, but it is extremely caustic and not safe to use for anyone who is not used to working with sodium hydroxide. That is the reason we changed to recommending sodium carbonate, which is much safer.

Use it if you wish, but take careful precautions until it is mixed into your distilled water. On your own head be it.

So now we agree with chrisflhtc
« Last Edit: April 16, 2020, 10:43:00 AM by cfnisbet »

Offline Gene

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Re: sodium carbonate taste
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2020, 02:58:59 AM »
Dissolve 10.6 grams sodium carbonate anhydrous in enough water to make 100ml solution and use 1ml of this (which is almost exactly 20 eyedropper drops) per liter of water in your cell.

0.11g of sodium carbonate anhydrous in 1 liter of water is about a 0.01 molar solution.

Are you trying to use this directly as your cell water? If so, you're using TEN TIMES too much sodium carbonate!  I bet that would taste soapy and feel slippery.

The correct ratio is 1ml of 1M sodium carbonate per 1000ml of distilled water which makes the cell a 0.001 molar solution, NOT a 0.01 molar solution as you're making.

Just make a 30-60 ml 1 molar stock solution in a small eye dropper bottle (glass) and use 20 drops of this per liter of water for your cell.  That little bottle of electrolyte will be very easy to store and it will last you a LONG time where as long as you keep it tightly capped so no water evaporates, you could theoretically use it to the last drop.

30ml of 1 molar sodium carbonate electrolyte using anhydrous is about 3.18 grams (call it 3.2grams), adding enough water to this to make 30ml.  For 60ml it would be 6.36grams (call it 6.4grams) adding enough water to bring the total volume up to 60ml.

At least in the USA, eyedropper bottles are either 1oz or 2oz US (about 30ml or 60ml respectively) which is why I picked those sizes.  If you pick a different size other than 100ml, just multiply 10.6g by the bottle volume in milliliters divided by 100 and use that amount.

At 1ml/liter, a 30ml bottle would be enough to make 30 liters of Colloidal Silver.

There is a reason why they call sodium carbonate washing soda.  Being highly alkaline, its a good "detergent" or "laundry booster".  In the US, the non-anhydrous stuff (mined) is sold under the Arm and Hammer brand as "washing soda".

Offline Turbidaceous

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Re: sodium carbonate taste
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2020, 02:28:29 PM »
I have specifically labelled "food grade" sodium carbonate. It came in a 200g plastic tub.

I have made colloidal silver by both using a high precision scale which can measure to the milligram, give or take a milligram and I have also used a bit bigger less 0.01 gram accuracy scales to measure it in bulk to make the 1M solution and use 20 drops. In either method I have used to measure and use the right amount of sodium carbonate, I have NEVER tasted any soapyness to it or had any weird taste at all. Ever.

These days I use a 5ml syringe and suck up a ml or two into it and carefully use the plunger to administer 20 drops into the beaker.

Zero problems, from my own experience so far.

Offline Neofizz

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Re: sodium carbonate taste
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2020, 03:57:05 PM »
For the years I've been using it to make Colloidal Silver I've never noticed any taste either. Always figured it's too dilute to taste it.
"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."

RedDogJT

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Re: sodium carbonate taste
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2020, 07:55:48 PM »
:PI've been making Colloidal Silver for a day! and have not noticed any soapy taste. What I did enjoy doing was getting everything setup and the stirrer going, power on, then simply adding one drop at a time while watching the Ammeter start to climb.  I had a 1000ml beaker and I stopped at 18 drops when it stabilized at the right current. This gave me a little wiggle room for making adjustments

Offline Gene

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Re: sodium carbonate taste
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2020, 12:34:25 AM »
I agree. You're doing it wrong.

The electrolyte is there to lower cell resistance so you CAN get adequate amounts of current through it. Its there to raise the PH into the alkaline range (around 8-8.5PH) so the reducing agent works (they don't in acidic or neutral environments) and its there to INTERFERE with the silver ion's ability to plate out on the cathode so you can raise the PPM of ionic silver in the water to 20PPM.

You need 20 drops of electrolyte (1 molar) per liter of water.  You really can't nor should you deviate much from this.

You need a current limiter to keep the current constant at some setting.

You adjust cell voltage by raising or lowering the cathode.

Learn to do it correctly so you actually know what you made.