Colloidal Silver and Gold Forum

Production Techniques and Chemistry => Questions and Comments about Articles => Topic started by: Mer2112 on April 12, 2016, 11:07:47 PM

Title: Amount of electrolyte and reducing agent for Silvertrons vs. article inst.
Post by: Mer2112 on April 12, 2016, 11:07:47 PM

Hello,

I'm wondering why the electrolyte and reducing agent amounts are greater when referenced in the Silvertron Mini and Jr. manuals compared to the instructions in the Articles/Production Techniques thread.

The Silvertron manuals state 1 drop of electrolyte per ounce of water where the article simply states 20 drops per liter.

The manuals also note 5 drops of reducing agent for 32 ounces and the article says 2.

Can the technique in the articles section use the 1 drop per ounce rule?

I'm just curious about the differences and why.

Thanks,

Eric

Title: Re: Amount of electrolyte and reducing agent for Silvertrons vs. article inst.
Post by: kephra on April 12, 2016, 11:24:53 PM

The concentrations are different. 
1 drop per ounce is for 0.6 molar concentration.
1 ml per liter is for 1.0 molar concentration.
They both provide the same amount of sodium carbonate.

Title: Re: Amount of electrolyte and reducing agent for Silvertrons vs. article inst.
Post by: Mer2112 on April 12, 2016, 11:45:52 PM

Gotcha, so with the stronger 1.0 molar concentration, less reducing agent is needed, correct?

Title: Re: Amount of electrolyte and reducing agent for Silvertrons vs. article inst.
Post by: kephra on April 13, 2016, 01:36:25 AM

No, less liquid 1.0 molar solution electrolyte is needed to add the same amount of sodium carbonate to the solution. 

As far as reducing agent goes, more does no harm, and since not everyone who buys a SilverTron is a member or reads the forum, I suggested values that are easy to remember, and gives the user the best chance of making perfect colloidal silver.  There was someone here recently who was using a syringe to measure liquids, and it turned out that his syringe made 32 drops per ml instead of 20.  See there is safety built into my instructions, especially for people who do not read this forum.

Title: Re: Amount of electrolyte and reducing agent for Silvertrons vs. article inst.
Post by: PeterXXL on April 13, 2016, 08:37:36 AM

It's always a good idea to buy and use pH-sticks (litmus paper) and aim for a water with pH of 8.5. Adding 1 ml of 1-mol sodium carbonate soilution to 1 liter of water will result in a pH of about 8.5. Ref: http://aqion.onl/   using 1.0 mMol Na₂CO₃

Title: Re: Amount of electrolyte and reducing agent for Silvertrons vs. article inst.
Post by: Mer2112 on April 13, 2016, 12:18:27 PM

Thanks you two for the answers.

I just ordered a pack of these: http://smile.amazon.com/Litmus-Strips-Universal-Application-Packs/dp/B00S730YWG/ref=cm_wl_huc_item

Can I adjust the PH by adding more electrolyte?  Which way does the PH move when adding more?

Thanks!

Eric

Title: Re: Amount of electrolyte and reducing agent for Silvertrons vs. article inst.
Post by: kephra on April 13, 2016, 12:23:02 PM

Eric:  Those strips are not accurate enough, the range is too high.
Adding more electrolyte increases pH.
It is unnecessary to measure the pH.  Just use the correct amount.  You would be better off to buy an accurate digital scale to measure your sodium carbonate than to use the pH strips.

Title: Re: Amount of electrolyte and reducing agent for Silvertrons vs. article inst.
Post by: Mer2112 on April 13, 2016, 12:33:13 PM

Great, thank you.

I have a very accurate scale.  It's the same version of the one you sell on your site.

I'm guessing you mean weigh the sodium carbonate when I make my solution and not weigh the amount of solution I add to 1 liter, right?

Although, 1 ml = 1 gram so I could do that, right?

Title: Re: Amount of electrolyte and reducing agent for Silvertrons vs. article inst.
Post by: kephra on April 13, 2016, 01:00:24 PM

I meant weigh the sodium carbonate to make the solution with the appropriate weight depending on whether you have anhydrous, monohydrate, or decahydrate sodium carbonate. 
Then its plenty accurate to use 20 drops from a medicine dropper for a liter of colloidal silver, or use a measuring syringe.

Title: Re: Amount of electrolyte and reducing agent for Silvertrons vs. article inst.
Post by: Mer2112 on April 13, 2016, 01:05:50 PM

I need to do that.  I noticed that my last batch didn't reduce as quickly as the previous ones.  When I made my electrolyte initially I cut the recipe in half for my bottle size and didn't weigh while making so things may have been off.  I need to just make a full accurate batch and pitch the left over.  Heck, that stuff is $4.00 for a huge box so why skimp.

Thanks for all the help.