Author Topic: Tests of different Colloidal Silvers dissolved in Simulated Gastric Fluid  (Read 24137 times)

Offline PeterXXL

  • Expert
  • Participant
  • ***
  • Posts: 502
  • Likes: 10
Yet another test... 

PECTIN as Capping Agent

From an earlier made batch of 320 ppm (80 mg) Cinnamon reduced and stabilized colloidal silver, I took 20 ml and placed it in a small 250 ml flask on a heated constant stirrer and added 50 mg of Pectin (that's 50 mg Pectin to 5 mg Silver), and heated it til it started to boil. Removed it from the heated stirrer and placed it on another stirrer without heating, and let it stir for about 10 minutes, to make sure that the pectin was mixed with colloidal silver.

I then diluted the Pectin capped colloidal silver from 320 to 20, by taking that 20 ml Pectin capped and adding 300 ml deionized water (320 : 20) to make a 20 ppm solution of the capped colloidal silver. And then let it stir for about 5 minutes without heating

From my earlier made 500 ml of Simulated Gastric Acid, I took 50 ml and heated it under constant stirring to 37 C. Removed the flask and placed it into my other non-heated stirrer and poured 10 ml of the colloidal silver from above.

Picture taken directly after puring it in => http://oi58.tinypic.com/3133oe1.jpg  Note: The camera did not focuze on the flask but on the background, so the picture is somewhat blurred.

My comments: Nothing seem to happen that indicates that the capped nano particles are oxidized into silver chloride, or change din any other way when it comes in contact with the gastric acid.

After 10 minutes of constant stirring... => http://oi57.tinypic.com/169j1n5.jpg

My comments: No change in color or turbidity, which confirms that Pectin is a good capping agent for colloidal silver. 50 mg Pectin to 5 mg Silver is probably too much, but the molar weight of Pectin is not a fix value but can be between 60 - 130000. So it's better to add too much, and in that case, maybe 50 mg is too little also. Adding that amount of Pectin
« Last Edit: July 15, 2015, 08:24:25 PM by PeterXXL »

fishing4fun

  • Guest
Good job Peter, this is one of the ones i was waiting for.
Have you ever left a experiment in a solution that was warmed to see how long it would or would not change over 10 min's? like up to 2 hrs or so?
Second picture is quite clear.

Offline PeterXXL

  • Expert
  • Participant
  • ***
  • Posts: 502
  • Likes: 10
Good job Peter, this is one of the ones i was waiting for.
Have you ever left a experiment in a solution that was warmed to see how long it would or would not change over 10 min's? like up to 2 hrs or so?
Second picture is quite clear.


I kept this my last test in the E-flask, and right now - ~1.5 hour later - it look exactly the same :)

fishing4fun

  • Guest

I kept this my last test in the E-flask, and right now - ~1.5 hour later - it look exactly the same :)


That is quite amazing, i was thinking like 30 min's and it would changed.
Very good of you to do these test
Thanks.

Offline PeterXXL

  • Expert
  • Participant
  • ***
  • Posts: 502
  • Likes: 10
Test #2 of Pepsin as capping agent

From an earlier made batch of 500 ppm (125 mg) colloidal silver reduced and stabilized with Tannic Acid, I took 20 ml (5 mg) of it and placed it into a 250 ml E-flask with constant stirring and heating. Then added 100 mg Pepsin (so it's 100 mg Pepsin for 5 mg Silver) and let it stir and heat til it started to reach boiling temp.

I removed the flask, and placed it on a magnetic stirrer without heating, and let it continue to stir for 10 minutes to make sure that the capping process was completed.

After the 10 mins, I took 50 ml of my previously made bottle of simulated gastric fluid and poured it into another 250 ml E-flask, which I placed ion the heated magnetic stirrer and heated it til it reached 37 C, then removed it from the heated stirrer and placed it on my non-heated stirrer and added 20 ml of the above diluted 20 ppm tannic acid colloidal silver. Instantly remopved the flask and placed it so I could take this picture...


http://oi59.tinypic.com/3027zty.jpg

My comments: No change in color that confirms that the colloidal silver oxidizes to ionic form as silver chloride; no change in color or turbidity.

Then moved it back to the non-heated magnetic stirrer and let it continue to stir for 10 minutes, then removed it fromt he stirrer and took this 2nd picture...

http://oi62.tinypic.com/b48akl.jpg

My comments:  The solution look the same as the previous one, confirming that time doesn't matter, as the capping agent still stands the gastric fluid.

I will keep the flask for  some hours to see if there's any change in color and turbidity.

So, once a confirmation that Pectin indeed is a good capping agent. This time I used 100 mg Pectin for 5 mg Silver. So when doing 1000 ml pf  20 ppm (20 mg) Pectin capped colloidal silver, then 4 times as much Pectin can be used, i.e. 400 mg (0.4 gram). And this is probably too much anyway.

Offline RickinWI

  • Expert
  • Participant
  • ***
  • Posts: 658
  • Likes: 6
Very interesting & thanks for the reports. Just wondering. Have you seen any functional advantage to using other capping agents rather than Gelatin? (other than the fact that some people might not like where the gelatin comes from)
So many VARIABLES & so little TIME.

Offline kephra

  • The older I get, the better I was
  • Administrator
  • Participant
  • *****
  • Posts: 8883
  • Likes: 286
  • Illegitimi Non Carborundum
    • My World As I See It
Pectin is a dietary fiber and as such is indigestible.  So the silver particles will just be excreted.
There is the unknown and the unknowable.  It's a wise man who knows the difference.

Offline PeterXXL

  • Expert
  • Participant
  • ***
  • Posts: 502
  • Likes: 10

Pectin is a dietary fiber and as such is indigestible.  So the silver particles will just be excreted.

Ok, but according to the study...

"Relationship between Molecular Weights of Pectin and Hypocholesterolemic Effects in Rats"

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1271/bbb.59.2130 

Quote: "...For these reasons, it is difficult to add sufficient pectin to food and drink to produce the physiological effects of a dietary fiber..." End quote.

...confirming that at least Pectin does not act as "normal" fiber.

And according to...

"Chemistry of Pectin and Its Pharmaceutical Uses : Review"

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/215872059_Chemistry_of_pectin_and_its_pharmaceutical_uses_A_review

Quote: "...The pectin, by itself or by its gelling properties, was employed in pharmaceutical industry, health promotion and treatment. It has been used potentially as a carrier for drug delivery to the gastrointestinal tract, such as matrix tablets, gel beads, film-coated doses form..." End quote.

So even though it's not useful for colloidal silver to enter the blood stream, it should be useful for releasing silver ions through the gastro-intestinal tract, where other types if colloidal silver will not be able to enter.

Offline kephra

  • The older I get, the better I was
  • Administrator
  • Participant
  • *****
  • Posts: 8883
  • Likes: 286
  • Illegitimi Non Carborundum
    • My World As I See It
Your experiments lead me to find out exactly what a dietary fiber is.  If its a substance that takes longer to digest than it takes to transit the digestive system, its considered fiber.  Thats why maltodextrin is considered nutritive, but dextrin which is the same type of polysaccharide, but with longer chain length is considered fiber.

Your own quote does not say the pectin is digested and absorbed, only that it was used to deliver drugs.  I read that section of the article simply as meaning that its difficult to add that to food in any kind of acceptable manner. 

So I don't see how it can deliver ions in a useful manner, and even so, why do we want ions in the first place.  It can absorb substances like cholesterol and help expel them, but we don't want to expel the silver, we want to absorb it.
There is the unknown and the unknowable.  It's a wise man who knows the difference.

Offline PeterXXL

  • Expert
  • Participant
  • ***
  • Posts: 502
  • Likes: 10
Your experiments lead me to find out exactly what a dietary fiber is.  If its a substance that takes longer to digest than it takes to transit the digestive system, its considered fiber.  Thats why maltodextrin is considered nutritive, but dextrin which is the same type of polysaccharide, but with longer chain length is considered fiber.

Your own quote does not say the pectin is digested and absorbed, only that it was used to deliver drugs.  I read that section of the article simply as meaning that its difficult to add that to food in any kind of acceptable manner. 

So I don't see how it can deliver ions in a useful manner, and even so, why do we want ions in the first place.  It can absorb substances like cholesterol and help expel them, but we don't want to expel the silver, we want to absorb it.


I was thinking that, as silver nanoparticles releases silver ions when they are close enough to bacteria (as this is how bacteria are killed på colloidal silver as I understand it), and the "shell" of pectin around the silver nanoparticles are thin enough for this to happen (at least an in-vitro test that I read about confirm that pepsin capped zink nanoparticles kills bacteria). So even though that the benefits of Pepsin is to absorb substances, such pectin capped colloidal silver should, at least theoretically, act as containers for silver when it passes through the intestines.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2015, 09:45:41 AM by PeterXXL »

Offline kephra

  • The older I get, the better I was
  • Administrator
  • Participant
  • *****
  • Posts: 8883
  • Likes: 286
  • Illegitimi Non Carborundum
    • My World As I See It
Quote
I was thinking that, as silver nanoparticles releases silver ions when they are close enough to bacteria (as this is how bacteria are killed på colloidal silver as I understand it), and the "shell" of pepsin around the silver nanoparticles are thin enough for this to happen (at least an in-vitro test that I read about confirm that pepsin capped zink nanoparticles kills bacteria). So even though that the benefits of Pepsin is to absorb substances, such pepsin capped colloidal silver should, at least theoretically, act as containers for silver when it passes through the intestines.
I think you mean pectin, not pepsin.

There are more bacteria in the human gut than the total number of cells in the body.  The best you could hope for would be to kill off some gut bacteria.
There is the unknown and the unknowable.  It's a wise man who knows the difference.

Offline PeterXXL

  • Expert
  • Participant
  • ***
  • Posts: 502
  • Likes: 10
Quote
I was thinking that, as silver nanoparticles releases silver ions when they are close enough to bacteria (as this is how bacteria are killed på colloidal silver as I understand it), and the "shell" of pepsin around the silver nanoparticles are thin enough for this to happen (at least an in-vitro test that I read about confirm that pepsin capped zink nanoparticles kills bacteria). So even though that the benefits of Pepsin is to absorb substances, such pepsin capped colloidal silver should, at least theoretically, act as containers for silver when it passes through the intestines.
I think you mean pectin, not pepsin.

There are more bacteria in the human gut than the total number of cells in the body.  The best you could hope for would be to kill off some gut bacteria.


Thanks for pointing out the typo. I just corrected.

And yes, you're right about that. And this is also the reason that even though a person is eating antibiotics, all the bacteria in the intestines are still not killed, but the balance of bacteria there is changed due to the fact that many of them are indeed killed. Also, in the intestines there are mainly so called gram-positive bacteria, which have a thicker cell wall than so called gram-negative bacteria, which is the reason why it's generally much easier to kill gram-negative bacteria than gram-positive ditto. So, theoretically speaking, silver nanoparticles that passes through the intestines will mainly also kill those non-wanted gram-negative bacteria found there.

Offline kephra

  • The older I get, the better I was
  • Administrator
  • Participant
  • *****
  • Posts: 8883
  • Likes: 286
  • Illegitimi Non Carborundum
    • My World As I See It
Quote
Thanks for pointing out the typo. I just corrected.
I find that the number of typos I make is directly related to the number of candles on my birthday cake.  Usually, they are only noticeable 1 second after pressing the post button.

Quote
And yes, you're right about that. And this is also the reason that even though a person is eating antibiotics, all the bacteria in the intestines are still not killed, but the balance of bacteria there is changed due to the fact that many of them are indeed killed.
Because of this, the best strategy is to absorb the silver as early in the alimentary canal as possible.
There is the unknown and the unknowable.  It's a wise man who knows the difference.

SanchoPanza

  • Guest

Because of this, the best strategy is to absorb the silver as early in the alimentary canal as possible.

Knowing little about it, I will agree with that.
I picture getting it past the stomach first, and start working ASAP, in the SI.

-Sancho

fishing4fun

  • Guest
What if we were to heat up our water with the electrolyte in and the Gelatin or Pectin or others First, then after that process is complete, start the electric process.
Would it make a difference?
Its like you would have done the last step first then the electric while the water is still very hot to start making metallic silver.


Or would that just cover the anode and cathode making the process no good?