Author Topic: My first batch (40ppm Sodium Carbonate + Malto + Gelatin)  (Read 606 times)

Offline leogomide07

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My first batch (40ppm Sodium Carbonate + Malto + Gelatin)
« on: June 04, 2021, 06:41:15 AM »
So, after one month of programming and prototyping, here it is the first batch :D

I have noticed some points that differ a little from the articles i have seen, so here we go.

For this first batch, i used the same values calculated is this excell table https://www.cgcsforum.org/index.php?topic=4014.0 (thanks Dean for this tool)

So, i pour 3 liters of DW, added 3 ml of 1mol anydrous sodium carbonate and started heating.

After the liquid heats a bit, i have added 1.7g of Maltodextrin and mixed with a spoon. At this point, the liquid becomes very cloudy, and after it becomes clear again, i have some foam floating at the top, so i removed it with the spoon.

When my controller detected 50ºC, the reaction have started.

After 5 minutes, i have verified it with the laser, and noticed a tyndall effect on the liquid (at this point with ~1 ppm), so i think maybe this is because of the malto, that for nome reason was not fully solved.

After 15 minutes, the water started to turn yellow, so i was confident in the process.

I have configured the controller to run with 15mA, and it have done it for the most part of the process, but at the final half hour, even at around 42 volts (max voltage from my controller), the current of the circuit have become lower, so i cleaned the tip of the electrodes, but with no effect on the current.

I was using 2 relays to switch the polarity of the circuit every 2 minutes, because i have seen in a youtube video that this polarity switching could prevent the electrodes from darkening, but in fact it dont make much difference, it becomes dark anyways (so i have discarted my continous production idea :/ )

After about 2 hours, the 40 ppm concentration have been reached (the controller reads the current of the circuit constantly, so i think my calculations of PPM are accurate).

After its done, i removed the electrodes, mantained the heat and added a solution with 1.5g of Gelatin and mixed with a spoon for about 2 minutes.

Inspecting the final results, i noticed it turns white under strong light (celular flash), the tyndall effect is the same of the beggining, and it looks just a little bit turvy ant with a stronger collor compared with the Color Samples from Kephra (https://www.cgcsforum.org/index.php?topic=3713.0)

I have not added a stirrer yet, this tyndall effect can be ralated in some way with this fact? And im using a very strong laser pointer (50 km range), can this be related too?

Im using a 0.001g precision balance from AliExpress, so i think the amount of reagents are very accurate.

The voltage between the silver bars remained above 14v all the time, the spacing im using is ~5cm and both electrodes have almost the same surface area (about 1.5 cm into the water).

I have noticed no precipitation on the bottom of the becker, and just tiny bubbles have appeared on the electrodes, no smoking.

So, for the next batch, i will improve:
  • Remove the polarity switching and replace the negative electrode with a copper wire
  • Add a constant stirrer during all the process
  • Add the gelatin at the beggining of the process, not at the end

Advices are welcome, and as always, thanks Kephra for this amazing work!

Heres some pictures of the process

Offline leogomide07

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Re: My first batch (40ppm Sodium Carbonate + Malto + Gelatin)
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2021, 06:43:48 AM »
Some pictures of the tyndall effect and the white effect when a strong ligth  is applied
« Last Edit: June 04, 2021, 07:48:08 PM by leogomide07 »

Offline leogomide07

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Re: My first batch (40ppm Sodium Carbonate + Malto + Gelatin)
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2021, 06:46:14 AM »
Color samples: 40 ppm, 20 ppm and 10 ppm from left to rigth

Offline cfnisbet

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Re: My first batch (40ppm Sodium Carbonate + Malto + Gelatin)
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2021, 03:29:02 PM »
Reasonably good results, with a bit of agglomeration. You may find that reducing the Colloidal Silver more slowly or changing to reducing with maltodextrin works better to make the final product more clear.

Offline kephra

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Re: My first batch (40ppm Sodium Carbonate + Malto + Gelatin)
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2021, 05:01:27 PM »
I think you should  try more gelatin. 
There is the unknown and the unknowable.  It's a wise man who knows the difference.

Offline leogomide07

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Re: My first batch (40ppm Sodium Carbonate + Malto + Gelatin)
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2021, 07:52:43 PM »
I think you should  try more gelatin.

I used the formula: PPM * ML / 80 = 40 * 3000 / 80 = 1500 mg

Do you recommend another one?

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Reasonably good results, with a bit of agglomeration. You may find that reducing the Colloidal Silver more slowly or changing to reducing with maltodextrin works better to make the final product more clear.

The agglomeration you mean is the white effect or the tyndall effect?

I have used maltodextrin already, can it be any step of the process i made?

With current you recommend? ~5mA or ~10mA?

Offline cfnisbet

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Re: My first batch (40ppm Sodium Carbonate + Malto + Gelatin)
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2021, 09:59:02 AM »
I think you should  try more gelatin.

I used the formula: PPM * ML / 80 = 40 * 3000 / 80 = 1500 mg

Do you recommend another one?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reasonably good results, with a bit of agglomeration. You may find that reducing the Colloidal Silver more slowly or changing to reducing with maltodextrin works better to make the final product more clear.

The agglomeration you mean is the white effect or the tyndall effect?

I have used maltodextrin already, can it be any step of the process i made?

With current you recommend? ~5mA or ~10mA?
Sorry, didn't spot you were already using maltodextrin.

Yes, Kephra had the best suggestion; try more gelatin.

The agglomeration is the opalescent colour. Forget the Tyndall effect, either the product is obviously clear or it's not. It should resemble malt scotch; completely clear but a deep brown colour.

Offline leogomide07

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Re: My first batch (40ppm Sodium Carbonate + Malto + Gelatin)
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2021, 07:07:33 PM »
Finished the second batch, and it looks better now :)

I have added constant stirring now, and changed the becker lid, now the water that evaporates dont precipitate into the container.

I have heated the becker to about 50ºC and then added 1 mL per liter of sodium carbonate solution, and the water remained completely clear.

Then, i have added the Maltodextrin, slowly and sparkling it over the becker, now the water turns white and remaisn for about 5 minutes, till it total dissolved.

Then added the hidrated gelatin (after left it in cold water for 5 minutes) and stirred till the solution reach 65ºC

At this point, i have started the electrolisis, and after 30 minutes the water already looks dark yellow (at about 5 ppm calculated)

The final result does not look opalescent like the last batch, the color remains the same under strong ligth, but its not completely clear like kephra's photos.

The process have been done about 13-15mA, the voltage over the cell always been over 14 volts, constant stirring all the time, and remais in the range of 75-80ºC.

I think the maltodextrin im using is causing the liquid to not be completely clear, whats you guys think about it?

Can this result be less effective than required?

Offline leogomide07

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Re: My first batch (40ppm Sodium Carbonate + Malto + Gelatin)
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2021, 07:09:20 PM »
Second batch color samples

Offline leogomide07

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Re: My first batch (40ppm Sodium Carbonate + Malto + Gelatin)
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2021, 06:47:24 PM »
Salt test picture samples of the second batch.

After adding half tablespoon of cooking salt (NaCL) it changed to a ligther color, but no cloudyness or any color change

Tha samples are diluted to 20ppm with regular mineral water

Offline cfnisbet

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Re: My first batch (40ppm Sodium Carbonate + Malto + Gelatin)
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2021, 11:45:35 AM »
I think you have got it! Good results.