Author Topic: colloidal gold, Electrolysis III 40ppm  (Read 10647 times)

Neopol

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colloidal gold, Electrolysis III 40ppm
« on: October 04, 2013, 08:31:16 PM »
At the start of this week I was successful in my first batch of colloidal gold using Kephra's Quick Start Guide: 400mg maltodextrin and 120 mg salt @ .350ma for 30 minutes. The color was a clear, ruby red and has remained stable. This morning I observed a fine, particulate matter floating on the surface looking slightly gold-ish and metallic in color. I could not determine what it was under magnification but, when I shook the bottle in went back into solution. After sitting for a while it returns to surface and looks like gold floating on the surface. Could the AuNP be aggregating and floating?

valdor21

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Re: Colloidal Gold, Electrolysis III 40ppm
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2013, 05:55:57 AM »
the same thing happens to me when i use that method after a few days. seems to be a side effect of using maltrodextrin. i wonder if their is something we can add to the solution to keep that from happening.

Offline mraluma415

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Re: Colloidal Gold, Electrolysis III 40ppm
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2013, 07:55:46 AM »
I have seen this before in chemical reduction, where there are metallic "flakes" floating on the surface.  This usually happened when I tried to rush the reaction timing, or there was not enough water to allow a stable medium for the reaction. If it were gold precipitate, it would more than likely sink to the bottom.  It could be another compound, I am thinking from the table salt.  Let us know if you see anything at the bottom. This observation has remained undetermined as far as I know.
"The art of healing comes from nature, not from the physician. Therefore the physician must start from nature, with an open mind." - Paracelsus

Offline cfnisbet

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Re: Colloidal Gold, Electrolysis III 40ppm
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2013, 08:29:18 AM »
As they consume flakes of metallic Silver & Gold in India as cake decorations and hors d'oeuvres, I would add that it will be safe to consume - assuming the flakes are of the metallic element. I am just adding this for new users, I don't think mraluma415 and other long-time users of colloidal gold need my advice.

Offline kephra

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Re: Colloidal Gold, Electrolysis III 40ppm
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2013, 01:30:40 PM »
I have seen this before in chemical reduction, where there are metallic "flakes" floating on the surface.  This usually happened when I tried to rush the reaction timing, or there was not enough water to allow a stable medium for the reaction. If it were gold precipitate, it would more than likely sink to the bottom.  It could be another compound, I am thinking from the table salt.  Let us know if you see anything at the bottom. This observation has remained undetermined as far as I know.
It is common to have a surface layer of gold particles on the water.  Gold is quite visible when only 1 atom thick, and the surface tension of the water is quite strong, strong enough to support a sewing needle for instance.  The layer of gold is quite harmless, and although it looks like a lot, in reality it is not.  You can minimize it by storing your colloidal gold in a bottle with minimum surface area, or filling the bottle up to the neck where it narrows.
There is the unknown and the unknowable.  It's a wise man who knows the difference.

Neopol

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Re: Colloidal Gold, Electrolysis III 40ppm
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2013, 06:38:45 PM »
I am very happy with the results and wish to thank everyone for their comments. This further corroborates your excellent work in bringing this information to us all.

Offline mraluma415

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Re: Colloidal Gold, Electrolysis III 40ppm
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2013, 07:16:30 PM »
In goldsmithing, gold plating is one atom thick also, which is why it rubs off pretty quickly.  I did not consider the surface tension of the water. Good point Kephra!  Still I think we should consider how to keep this to a minimum so that more of the gold is bioavailable rather than floating to the top.  Maybe you can try some gum arabic in your formula.  This is a great addition to stabilizing particles.
"The art of healing comes from nature, not from the physician. Therefore the physician must start from nature, with an open mind." - Paracelsus

Neopol

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Re: Colloidal Gold, Electrolysis III 40ppm
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2013, 07:44:21 PM »
Today, I observed another change in the 1st batch of colloidal gold. The metallic surface particles observed earlier were not present today. But floating within the liquid were large, filamentous, floating aggregates some as large as 10mm in length. They did not appear metallic. I filtered the colloidal gold through a coffee filter and spread the filter paper flat across a double layered paper towel. I used a 8X loupe to magnify the material. Within the approximate 4" filter diameter there were more than 30 groups of dark, micro, hair-like aggregates along with some other dark, non hair-like particles. The hair-like groups were splayed together very much wet head hair.
As I am scrupulous in my glassware cleaning, I am certain I did not contaminate the liquid during any of the processes. Ditto for equipment and ingredients with the exception of the salt which had sodium silicate anti-caking agent in it and the Carbo-Gain. Anyone experience anything similar?

Neopol

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Re: Colloidal Gold, Electrolysis III 40ppm
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2013, 10:11:54 PM »
Here is a close up photo of the filter paper:

[img width= height=]http://i40.tinypic.com/uplec.jpg[/img]

Offline kephra

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Re: Colloidal Gold, Electrolysis III 40ppm
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2013, 11:41:39 PM »
What you see is common when using maltodextrin.  As near as I can tell, the maltodextrin links together forming longer chains.  It is harmless.
There is the unknown and the unknowable.  It's a wise man who knows the difference.

Neopol

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Re: Colloidal Gold, Electrolysis III 40ppm
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2013, 05:10:19 AM »
It appears that the maltodextrin linking, then, is causing aggregation of the AuNP's which is precipitating out of colloidal suspension. The electrical charge on the np's has not held long enough to remain colloidal.  After this precipitation is there any Au left in the surrounding, remaining liquid? The photo shows a substantial amount of metallic gold trapped within the hair-like formations. The original batch was 250ml and now most of it remains unused and perhaps devoid of the nano-particles we desire to be in our product.

Offline mraluma415

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Re: Colloidal Gold, Electrolysis III 40ppm
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2013, 07:48:46 AM »
I would not call it aggregation, but rather flocculation.  If the particles still exhibit a reddish color, than they are still the same particle size as intended.  What happens with flocculation is they attract to one another yet do not fuse together.  Most likely, having the maltodextrin chains linking them together like charms on a necklace.
"The art of healing comes from nature, not from the physician. Therefore the physician must start from nature, with an open mind." - Paracelsus

Offline kephra

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Re: Colloidal Gold, Electrolysis III 40ppm
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2013, 12:14:11 PM »
Quote
... linking them together like charms on a necklace.
Excellent analogy. 
Yes, its the maltodextrin that links together, but the gold particles never touch.  It does no harm.
There is the unknown and the unknowable.  It's a wise man who knows the difference.

Neopol

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Re: Colloidal Gold, Electrolysis III 40ppm
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2013, 06:54:45 PM »
Shaking the linked chains does not appear to put them back into solution with the np's. Now that I filtered them out and observe the red solution it appears clear. Because of the instability of the suspension the question is whether, in the next batch, one must consume the entire batch before it flocculates out and leaves the solution depleted of AuNP's. This means within a short period of time like a couple of days. If one makes a larger batch, one might be stuck with a largely depleted colloidal gold solution.

Offline kephra

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Re: Colloidal Gold, Electrolysis III 40ppm
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2013, 07:00:56 PM »
Quote
Because of the instability of the suspension the question is whether, in the next batch, one must consume the entire batch before it flocculates out and leaves the solution depleted of AuNP's. This means within a short period of time like a couple of days  If one makes a larger batch, one might be stuck with a largely depleted colloidal gold solution.
If the NPs were depleted, the solution would go clear.  Did it?  I have never had that happen.  I think you are worrying over nothing.  Oh, and don't filter out the strand.  Its maltodextrin, it won't hurt you.
There is the unknown and the unknowable.  It's a wise man who knows the difference.