Author Topic: Making Gold Chloride  (Read 16255 times)

Offline PeterXXL

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Making Gold Chloride
« on: August 25, 2015, 09:13:31 PM »


I'm planning to make my own 100 ml 99.99% gold chloride solution from a 1 gram 9999 gold bar as follows:

Requirements:

- 1 gram collector gold bar with 9999 printed on it (for guaranteed purity)
- Hydrogen peroxide of at least 15% (for cleaning)
- Nitric Acid with highest possible purity and 65% concentration (the exact concentration is not important, as it can be lower)
- Hydrochloric Acid with highest purity and 30% (but not higher)
- Deionized or distilled water
- 250 ml Beaker of borosilicate
- A tall Measure Beaker of borosilicate glass of up to 25 ml or so that shows lines of 1 ml
- Glass rod (for stirring acids)
- A 100 ml glass bottle
- PVC-gloves (for protection)
- Goggles (for protection)
- Extractor hood (as the fumes are very toxic)

1) Start cleaning the glass beaker and glass bottle and capsule, first with hydrogen peroxide, then with still water, and finally with distilled/deionized water.
2) Place the 250 ml borosilicate beaker at a hotplate that is placed under a extractor hood.
3) Place the gold bar at the bottom of the beaker.
4) Make a Aqua Regia solution (1:3) as follows...
4a) Pour 100 ml 30% A) hydrochloric acid into the beaker.
4b) Measure 15 ml B) (for a 1:3 solution) of 65% nitric acid and pour it into into the beaker, and mix the acid solution with the glass rod..
4) Turn on the heatplate so it starts to boil gently and watch the chemical process.
Note: Watch out for the toxic fumes, which consists of nitrosyl chloride (NOCl) and chloride gas (Cl2), plus non-toxic nitric oxide (NO) and/or nitric dioxide (NO2).
5) Once all the gold has turned into liquid gold chloride, let it continue to boil.
6) Next step is to "clean" the solution from acids. Both the acids have a lower boiling temperature than water, and it's especially important to have all the nitric acid removed,
so in order to "clean" the gold chloride solution, first add little hydrochloric acid and let it continue to boil so you don't let it dry completely at once. And when almost all the acidic water has boiled away, add little distilled/deionized water, and continue over an over again a few times, and finally let it boil dry.
Note: It's important that the boiling is done at the highest possible temperature, as low concentrated hydrochloric acid have a boiling temperature that is somewhat higher compared to water.
6) Turn off the heat and add distilled water til there's exactly 100 ml.
7) Pour it over to the 100 ml bottle, and mark it

The result is now 100 ml of a gold chloride solution C) that we sure know contains 1000 mg (1 gram) gold, so 1.0 ml of that solution will contain 1000 / 100 x 1 = 10 mg of gold.

A) The lower the concentration is for hydrochloric acid, the higher is also the boiling temperature. At 34% it has about the same boiling temp. as nitric acid, which we don't want, as nitric acid must be able to vaporize away before the hydrochloric acid. For this reason, the hydrochloric acid should not have a higher concentration than 30%, which equals a boiling temp of 90 C. When we then add distilled water, the boiling temp. will rise, and when the concentration of hydrochloric acid is around 25% it has about the same boiling temp. as water, so if we add water it will simply mean that the water will boil off before the remaining hydrochloric acid

B) Calculation is as follows:
1:3 means 1 part nitric acid (HNO3) and 3 parts hydrochloric acid (HCl) measured in volume.
If we use 100 ml of HCl that has a concentration of 30% then we first calculate how much HNO3 that equals if we want the same volume...
30% / 65% x 100 ml = 46.15 ml. However, we only want 1/3 of that, so 46.15 / 3 = 15.38 rounded to 15 ml HNO3 is needed.   

C) Reaction formula:
Au + HNO3 + 4 HCl → HAuCl4 + NO + 2 H2O
« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 09:18:44 PM by PeterXXL »

Offline kephra

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Re: Making Gold Chloride
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2015, 12:03:00 AM »
How do you know thats enough acid to dissolve 1 gram of gold?

Good luck.
There is the unknown and the unknowable.  It's a wise man who knows the difference.

low_tech

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Re: Making Gold Chloride
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2015, 11:30:26 PM »
I have been doing it for a while, super easy, just takes a while.

all you need is gold, HCL acid and H2O2......

one gram gold cut out of a 9999 bar with a drill bit.

HCL from pool cleaning supply house(approx 9 M strength)  says 35 percent on jug

35 percent H2O2 bought at health food store.

glass container( I use a graduated cylinder)

start with the finest metal shavings you can, mass to surface area ratio is the most important factor.

gold in cylinder, enough acid to cover, small amount of H2O2

wait, add heat if you want to speed it up.
as soon as the production of H2 gas decreases, add more acid and H2O2, 

use whatever means you want to achieve desired concentration.
I shoot for 1 percent, but if I miss a little I notice when I make colloidal gold, and adjust accordingly.
Easy.
also about half the price of the stuff from salt lake metals.

instead of 4 bucks a quart for colloidal gold now it's a little over 2 bucks

I use more carbonate of soda solution to neutralize any left over HCL whilst making colloidal gold, my way is more intuative, but it works for me.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 11:39:05 PM by low_tech »

Offline kephra

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Re: Making Gold Chloride
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2015, 05:50:07 PM »
Thats much safer than using nitric acid.
There is the unknown and the unknowable.  It's a wise man who knows the difference.

Offline Gene

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Re: Making Gold Chloride
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2015, 10:21:07 PM »
Sure sounds like it'd work.  A relatively "safe" etchant for making copper clad PCB's I use is a mix of 1 part muriatic acid (about 31% HCL IIRC) to 2 parts 3% hydrogen peroxide.

So it doesn't surprise me that HCL and H2O2 would work for dissolving gold and creating gold chloride.

And as Kephra says, this has got to be MUCH safer than handling high concentration nitric acid (would that be fuming grade?) and a lot easier to obtain and yeah, probably a lot cheaper.

I'd love to read the experiences of someone else who is willing to try this procedure.  Right now I'm not making CGW but perhaps in the future so a simple method that doesn't require that you order something through the mail and wait to get it - if even the situation in this country supports that happening (things seem to be heading downhill quickly) would be good.


Offline kephra

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Re: Making Gold Chloride
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2015, 09:13:56 PM »
Has anyone tried either process yet?
There is the unknown and the unknowable.  It's a wise man who knows the difference.

Offline lordkarma

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Re: Making Gold Chloride
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2015, 09:55:57 PM »
I have been doing it for a while, super easy, just takes a while.

all you need is gold, HCL acid and H2O2......

one gram gold cut out of a 9999 bar with a drill bit.

HCL from pool cleaning supply house(approx 9 M strength)  says 35 percent on jug

35 percent H2O2 bought at health food store.

glass container( I use a graduated cylinder)

start with the finest metal shavings you can, mass to surface area ratio is the most important factor.

gold in cylinder, enough acid to cover, small amount of H2O2

wait, add heat if you want to speed it up.
as soon as the production of H2 gas decreases, add more acid and H2O2, 

use whatever means you want to achieve desired concentration.
I shoot for 1 percent, but if I miss a little I notice when I make colloidal gold, and adjust accordingly.
Easy.
also about half the price of the stuff from salt lake metals.

instead of 4 bucks a quart for colloidal gold now it's a little over 2 bucks

I use more carbonate of soda solution to neutralize any left over HCL whilst making colloidal gold, my way is more intuative, but it works for me.

Kephra you going to give this a whirl?  8)

Offline kephra

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Re: Making Gold Chloride
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2015, 10:22:05 PM »
Quote
Kephra you going to give this a whirl?  8)
Nah, I'm leaving it to  you guys to try.  It should work.
There is the unknown and the unknowable.  It's a wise man who knows the difference.

tseax

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Re: Making Gold Chloride
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2015, 01:15:36 PM »
I have been doing it for a while, super easy, just takes a while.

all you need is gold, HCL acid and H2O2......
I'm tempted to give this a go one of these days. I wonder though about the Wikipedia article which below "Dissolving Gold" states:
Quote
Aqua regia dissolves gold, though neither constituent acid will do so alone (my emphasis), because, in combination, each acid performs a different task. Nitric acid is a powerful oxidizer, which will actually dissolve a virtually undetectable amount of gold, forming gold ions (Au3+). The hydrochloric acid provides a ready supply of chloride ions (Cl), which react with the gold ions to produce tetrachloroaurate(III) anions, also in solution. The reaction with hydrochloric acid is an equilibrium reaction which favors formation of chloroaurate anions (AuCl4). This results in a removal of gold ions from solution and allows further oxidation of gold to take place. The gold dissolves to become chloroauric acid. In addition, gold may be dissolved by the free chlorine present in aqua regia.
It gives one pause. But if it works for you...

tseax

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Re: Making Gold Chloride
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2015, 01:56:56 PM »
The wiki article is correct for the most part...The purpose of the nitric acid is to strip electrons from the gold bars surface atoms which makes them reactive, and then they combine with the chlorine from the HCL to form gold chloride...Strong H2O2 performs the same function.
Well that's good news. I believe I'll give it a try when I track down some 30+% H2O2.
Thanks wg.

tseax

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Re: Making Gold Chloride
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2015, 11:32:14 PM »
In progress:


This is 2.6 grams of gold dissolving in 36% HCl with the encouragement of 29% H2O2.

I'm not sure whether the end product will be mostly HAuCl4(anhydrous or trihydrate or tetrahydrate) or mostly HCl. And how does one get rid of the last of the HCl? In this topic lordkarma stated:
Quote
I use more carbonate of soda solution to neutralize any left over HCL whilst making colloidal gold, my way is more intuative, but it works for me.
So I guess it really doesn't matter - just neutralize the final product(?)
« Last Edit: October 07, 2015, 04:58:29 PM by tseax »

Offline kephra

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Re: Making Gold Chloride
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2015, 11:38:19 PM »
Yep, it looks like gold chloride :)
Quote
I'm not sure whether the end product will be mostly HAuCl4(anhydrous or trihydrate or tetrahydrate)
Anhydrous, monohydrate, tetrahydrate etc only apply to dry materials.  I think it would be a mistake to try to completely dry your gold chloride as it might revert to metallic gold before you want it to.  In the end, you want it dissolved anyway.
There is the unknown and the unknowable.  It's a wise man who knows the difference.

tseax

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Re: Making Gold Chloride
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2015, 11:59:19 PM »
Yep, it looks like gold chloride :)
Yeah!
Quote
...I think it would be a mistake to try to completely dry your gold chloride as it might revert to metallic gold before you want it to.  In the end, you want it dissolved anyway.
Great. Keeps it simple. Simply speaking, dissolving 2.616 gms Au (by way of HAuCl4) in 174.4 mL H20 will provide a 1.5% solution of HAuCl4. 1 mL of this should provide 15 mg of Au in our nukerator recipe.

tseax

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Re: Making Gold Chloride
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2015, 04:57:23 PM »
Gold Chloride - The day after:

Sparkly gold particles it appears.

Best way to recover this?

tseax

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Re: Making Gold Chloride
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2015, 11:08:09 PM »
Sensible. The solution still works perfectly so I'll let it drop down to the glittering mud and do just that. Of course, then there's the issue of how to remove gold powder from filter paper  :-\

« Last Edit: October 08, 2015, 12:17:05 AM by tseax »