Colloidal Silver and Gold Forum

Production Techniques and Chemistry => Colloidal Silver Production => Topic started by: RickinWI on May 14, 2015, 09:53:14 PM

Title: Acid Tests by RickinWI for Colloidal Silver
Post by: RickinWI on May 14, 2015, 09:53:14 PM
I just recently discovered that my 20 PPM glucose reduced colloidal silver does not hold up very well at all when adding various different things that it could encounter in the stomach. I tested it against things like salt, Vinegar, 1/10th Molar Hydrochloric acid, 1/10 M HCl that was diluted 3:1 or 9:1 with DW, etc.  The harshest seemed to be the HCl acid with some salt added, but ALL of the things I added broke down the colloidal silver colloid fairly quickly into various different colors or turned it clear.

I also tested my 20 PPM Cinnamon Reduced (and therefore capped) colloidal silver against all of the above. It held up much better than the glucose reduced colloidal silver, but it also fell prey to the salty acid mix.

So I tried capping the glucose reduced colloidal silver with gelatin & it worked like a charm. The Gel-Capped colloidal silver held up to everything INCLUDING straight 1/10 Molar HCL with salt thrown in to boot. The 1/10th Molar HCl acid is said to have a pH of 1.0 which is lower than most accounts of the pH of stomach acid (pH 1.5 -3.5)
On the bottle it reads:Hydrochloric Acid 0.1M Labratory Grade 
Contains: water (99.68%), Hydrochloric Acid (0.314%)

To do the tests I added 10 gm of whatever reagent to 30 gm of colloidal silver. Pretty harsh environment & yet it holds up well.

The nice thing is that you do not need a heated stirrer to do this. Followed Kephra's instructions he gave in a different thread. Just take any colloidal silver that you already made like normal and bring to a boil on the stove or hot plate. Add Gelatin, stir a little & allow to cool. Easy as making Jello. Thanks, Kephra.

I started out adding 4 gm Gel per L and tested . Worked great. Then went down to 3 gm per L with same result. 2 gm = same.  1 gm = same.   
All the way down to 0.5 gm Gel/L with same result. Makes sense because only need to cap 20 mg of silver particles with 500 mg of Gel.  Even stood up to salty straight 1/10 Molar HCl. I now use 0.7 gm/L of Gelatin. Much easier to melt 0.7 gm into a L than 4 gm.
There is no taste, but at 4 gm/L you can definitely FEEL the difference. (smooth)
At 0.7 gm/L you barely know it's there.

Did same thing with my already made Cinnamon Reduced colloidal silver with same great results. Many of the people I give it to, including myself, prefer the slight Cinnamon flavor. Probably just a mental thing. Seems like something that color should taste like something:-)   So I guess my Gel-cap Cinnamon reduced colloidal silver is actually capped & re-capped?  With the 2 coats on there I'm sure it makes it through the stomach no problem, but I hope both layers get fully digested off in time to allow it to be absorbed?

I wonder if it would be better to reduce with glucose, then cap with Gel & then later on add a few drops of Cinn Extract for flavor?
Title: Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
Post by: cfnisbet on May 15, 2015, 12:56:41 PM
Excellent experiments, thank you.
Title: Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
Post by: PeterXXL on May 15, 2015, 06:34:42 PM
Thumbs up RickinWI for a great experiment :)

I have also wondering about the suggested 1 gram Gelatin per 250 ml colloidal silver, which seem to be just too much. But it depends on the concentration (ppm) of colloidal silver. I use that for 320 ppm gelatin capped colloidal silver, but will try with less next time.

I have bought Lipoic Acid (α-lipoic acid), and Tannic Acid (which both are used professionally by a company (www.nanocomposix.eu) who makes nanoparticles of silver and gold as common capping agents), and will try them as capping agents instead of gelatin or cinnamon extract to see how stable they are in comparison.
Title: Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
Post by: pawelk on May 15, 2015, 06:53:15 PM
Great work.
Title: Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
Post by: kephra on May 15, 2015, 07:27:19 PM
Quote from: PeterXXL
I have also wondering about the suggested 1 gram Gelatin per 250 ml colloidal silver, which seem to be just too much. But it depends on the concentration (ppm) of colloidal silver. I use that for 320 ppm gelatin capped colloidal silver, but will try with less next time.
Yes, scale the gelatin by the milligrams of silver, not ml of water.  So for 20 ppm, you would want 1/16 th gram gelatin. 

When I made up the formula, I calculated the amount of gelatin based on:
320 ppm particles
250 ml
14 nm diameter
10 % of the silver atoms on the surface of the particle.
1 molecule of gelatin for each surface atom.
The molecular weight of knox gelatin as 60,000 daltons.  It may be heavier, that is the bottom of the range.
The atomic weight of silver is 107 daltons.

Given those parameters, the weight of the silver in the solution is 80 mg with 8 mg of surface atoms.
Gelatin is 600 times heavier than silver.
So, the amount needed to coat the particles with one gelatin molecule per silver surface atom would be then 4.8 grams.

But when I tried it out, that much gelatin made glop instead of liquid, so I kept reducing it until I got a stable solution that did not gel.

Apparently the gelatin molecules are so big that each one covers and protects more than one surface atom. 

So while you think it is too much, I thought it was too little.

Title: Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
Post by: Gene on May 15, 2015, 08:48:47 PM
Just so I'm not misreading this, 1/16g gelatin per 250ml of 20PPM, so 0.25g per liter of 20PPM as a minimum?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
Post by: kephra on May 15, 2015, 09:06:13 PM
Thats what I would try.
Title: Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
Post by: peri1224 on May 16, 2015, 02:45:36 AM
It's initiative for experimentation that takes the world forward. Appreciate it.
These are the dosages derived from Kephra's recommendation of 4 g/L of 320 ppm.
ppm   mg gel./L
20   250
40   500
80   1,000
160   2,000
320   4,000

So with 700 mg/L of 20 ppm, you are almost 3 times higher than K.
The question is if this capped Colloidal Silver makes it through the stomach, which is by far the harshest environment it will encounter inside your body, will it ever shed its capping in order to zap the bad guys? Or is it possible that the size is so big that it can't even get into the blood?
Title: Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
Post by: FromTheDen on May 16, 2015, 03:24:14 AM
Very interesting experiments!
Don't we want the capping removed in the stomach? It seems like it would be best for the silver to be uncapped and absorbed early in the process so it kills bacteria in the bloodstream rather than the digestive tract where it might meet the good bacteria later on and take them out.
Title: Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
Post by: RickinWI on May 16, 2015, 05:31:44 AM
It's initiative for experimentation that takes the world forward. Appreciate it.
These are the dosages derived from Kephra's recommendation of 4 g/L of 320 ppm.
ppm   mg gel./L
20   250
40   500
80   1,000
160   2,000
320   4,000

So with 700 mg/L of 20 ppm, you are almost 3 times higher than K.
The question is if this capped Colloidal Silver makes it through the stomach, which is by far the harshest environment it will encounter inside your body, will it ever shed its capping in order to zap the bad guys? Or is it possible that the size is so big that it can't even get into the blood?

I figured I could still go lower when I was @ 0.5 gm per L.  I could tell that I wasn't approaching the boundary because @ 0.5 gm/L it was just as bullet proof as when I used 1.0 gm and higher.

Will it ever shed it's cap?  I certainly hope so. Worked well for my wife's recent cold but that is a sample size of one.  However Kephra & the others who have been making & using higher PPM have not reported any decrease in efficacy with capped colloidal silver.

Just a  guess but I picture the digestion of the gelatin starting in the stomach. Then continuing to completion in the small intestine. Once gelatin fully digested off then silver particles can be absorbed. At least I HOPE that's the scenario.

The reason I say that it starts in the stomach is this. My capped colloidal silver held up 100% overnight, but when I let it sit there for a couple more days eventually it went clear. That was in the straight 1/10 M HCl acid with salt added. (supposedly pH 1.0)  So I picture the stomach acid "softening up" the gelatin so it can be further digested in the small intestine.

I don't think it would be able to get into the bloodstream until all the gelatin was fully digested off.
Title: Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
Post by: RickinWI on May 16, 2015, 05:57:11 AM
Very interesting experiments!
Don't we want the capping removed in the stomach? It seems like it would be best for the silver to be uncapped and absorbed early in the process so it kills bacteria in the bloodstream rather than the digestive tract where it might meet the good bacteria later on and take them out.

Judging from my initial experiments with uncapped colloidal silver I would definitely say that we DO NOT want the cap removed in the stomach. I was shocked to see just how vulnerable glucose reduced colloidal silver is to just salt alone, or to vinegar which is only pH 4.0 I think.  The colloidal silver broke down & either changed color or went clear in a very short time, as in seconds or minutes. I don't know what the silver particles change to when exposed to these things, but it is no longer colloidal silver as we know it in our mason jars.   Perhaps whatever it breaks down to is just as effective as silver particles?  How else would everyone be getting good results from drinking uncapped colloidal silver all these years?  Afterall, the silver is still there, it just isn't in the same form as when we drank it if uncapped.

It takes some doing to find HCl acid that someone is willing to ship to you, but everyone has access to table salt & vinegar. Hopefully some others will try my experiments to make sure results are universal.

Of course then the next question would be once it successfully makes it's way into the small intestine & the gel-cap is fully digested & removed, then what else might it encounter there? Hopefully nothing as harsh as salty acid.
Title: Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
Post by: peri1224 on May 16, 2015, 07:55:07 AM
Have read up a little about gelatine. If it holds up against the stomach juices and makes it to the small intestines, very good. There the gelatine is digested by protease enzymes from the pancreas. If there is any glucose coating left, amylase enzymes will also digest that to finally free the Colloidal Silver particle from any protective coatings, ready to do the job it's meant to do. At least that's the way I understand it...
Title: Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
Post by: kephra on May 16, 2015, 11:11:17 AM
Quote
It takes some doing to find HCl acid that someone is willing to ship to you, but everyone has access to table salt & vinegar. Hopefully some others will try my experiments to make sure results are universal.
Most hardware stores sell hydrochloric acid.  They might call it muriatic acid, and it is used for cleaning stonework.
If you experiment with it, be sure to wear eye protection and gloves.
Title: Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
Post by: cfnisbet on May 16, 2015, 12:13:38 PM
Yes, I buy this for cleaning my toilet; it's very much cheaper than the "proper thing". In Britain, they refer to it as "Brick Acid" from builders' merchants, because it's used by builders to remove the white stains on new brickwork.

But be warned, Kephra is correct; it is VERY strong; don't take liberties with it, and use it in a place where you can wash away spills with plenty of water, likewise if you get any on your bare skin, rinse fast and thoroughly. Keep it away from children. The burns start painlessly, like they do with Sodium Hydroxide.

Also, don't use it anywhere near stainless steel or chrome plating. All the sinks in my previous home will have greyish plugholes if you make that mistake.
Title: Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
Post by: RickinWI on May 16, 2015, 05:14:35 PM
Yes, very true about the HCl acid danger.  I would not want my report to result in somebody's injury.   The stuff I got was 1/10th Molar which is EXTREMELY weak compared to what other kinds of HCl acid they had available. I think 10M and maybe higher than that?

But even @ 1/10 Molar it is supposed to have a pH of 1.0 so imagine how strong 100M would be.

But it is really not necessary to obtain HCl acid in order to verify the fact that the uncapped colloidal silver is VERY fragile. All you need is 30 ml  of colloidal silver in a small glass and a pinch of salt or a splash of Vinegar to see the result for yourself. Once you see that then it would be obvious that stomach acid would break down the colloidal silver even quicker.
Title: Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
Post by: RickinWI on May 16, 2015, 05:28:01 PM
Have read up a little about gelatine. If it holds up against the stomach juices and makes it to the small intestines, very good. There the gelatine is digested by protease enzymes from the pancreas. If there is any glucose coating left, amylase enzymes will also digest that to finally free the Colloidal Silver particle from any protective coatings, ready to do the job it's meant to do. At least that's the way I understand it...

That's good news.  I think the pancreas secretes into the small intestine toward the beginning end in the first couple of feet. That should give plenty of time for all the gelatin to be removed & the silver particles to be absorbed.

Thinking outloud about the digestive process: Isn't there something that is also secreted toward the beginning end of the small intestine that is supposed to neutralize the acid remaining from the stomach? I wonder what that substance is & if I could get some of that to check the capped colloidal silver with?
Title: Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
Post by: Gene on May 17, 2015, 03:14:05 AM
Muriatic acid is sold in Home Depot and Lowes in the US - $6 and change a gallon.  IIRC, its somewhere between 30% and 40% concentration.  The other thing about HCL is it fumes, even at this concentration, so if you weren't expecting it, don't be alarmed.  Its normal.

And if for some reason you want sulfuric acid and can live with I think 30%, go buy some battery acid.  Comes in a 1 quart box I think but a friend bought a 5 gallon box from a Napa auto parts store for something like $30 recently.  In case you're curious he's doing some copper electroplating and needed the sulfuric acid for the plating bath.

Neither obviously is food grade.

And I'm laughing.  I figured out exactly how good muriatic acid is to clean the toilet years ago, even get the hard water and iron stains out.  You only need like an ounce of it in maybe 12oz of water, pour that into the bowl, swish it around with a toilet brush (gently - don't go splashing it around) and then let it sit about half an hour to an hour depending on how bad the stains are, toilet brush it again, flush and its squeaky clean.  Nothing else I've tried does nearly as good a job, especially given how little cost is involved.

Just so its said, ALWAYS wear protective goggles when working with acid and ALWAYS pour the acid SLOWLY into cold water to dilute, NEVER the other way around unless you want to be running off to the ER - very good chance adding water to acid, its going to splatter and then it gets ugly.
Title: Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
Post by: RickinWI on May 17, 2015, 06:00:32 AM
The thing is, with Muriatic acid off the shelf, would you know it's Molarity? (and therefore have some idea of it's pH) I am guessing that might be MUCH stronger than the stuff I have. Maybe there would be a way to figure out what dilution to come close to the pH 1.0 -- 2.0 range? 
I think that would translate to 0.1 M ---0.01 M

The Gel-cap colloidal silver holds up nicely against 0.1 M HCl but I doubt it would fare so well vs 10 M or 100M HCl. 

The place I bought it from said that for stronger Molarity HCl acid they require you to have an exhaust hood & be an accredited educational or research facility.
I doubt if they would have sold me 10M or even 1M, but luckily the 0.1M was perfect for what I needed. At the same time I bought pure Maltose from that company too. Strangely enough I had to get an "exemption" to be able to purchase that also  ::)  No clue why. Surprised I didn't have to request an exemption for the eye droppers I ordered at same time. 

I knew to pour the acid into the colloidal silver for testing & never even got a whif of Chlorine. Probably because mine is so weak, relatively speaking. (but still a little stronger than stomach acid)

As Gene said, be very careful when playing with this stuff.
Title: Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
Post by: mraluma415 on May 17, 2015, 08:20:35 AM
this was a good experiment. 

There is no doubt gelatin gets digested as a protein by either, HCI, enzymes or both. So no worries there. But what state is the silver particle cluster in once it loses it protein capping agent?  Is it now an ion? This is a reasonable question.

I have been using gum arabic in a similar fashion that gelatin is used, along with green tea extract (rather than cinnamon extract). I put about a gram of gum arabic per liter of 20ppm colloidal silver. This is called a "protecting colloid", and has been used in research of colloids for many years. It can be found at specialty health food stores, but is most easily attainable online.

A lot of us have had some pretty amazing results using the various formulas of colloidal silver on this forum. I think the digestion of colloidal silver is still not quite understood, and may be much more efficient than we think. Here is some food for thought:

"As far as how long food stays in your stomach it depends on what that food is.
Some foods that contain simple carbohydrates (such as sugar or white bread) are relatively fast to digest compared to more complex carbohydrates or proteins.
Foods contain a variety of different levels of carbohydrates, fats, oils, protein, fiber, etc. all of which have different mechanisms and rates of digestion. If for example you eat some trail mix, the chocolate chips will be digested rapidly, the fruit will take longer, and the nuts could take several hours. The range in digestion times is large: if the stomach is empty water will leave immediately and go to the intestines, whereas meats such as beef and pork can take upwards of 4 hours."

So apparently, if you drink liquids, they pass almost immediately into the small intestine, which has a pH of 8.0. Any protein you ingest will have to hang around the stomach longer as it will be treated as a food. This would subject protein capped particles to a much longer time in the acid of the stomach.  The above excerpt would explain why a lot of people get great results using the formulas on this forum, and also why Kephra is not blue.  :P

curious to hear some thoughts on this.
Title: Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
Post by: cfnisbet on May 17, 2015, 08:42:51 AM
...Just so its said, ALWAYS wear protective goggles when working with acid and ALWAYS pour the acid SLOWLY into cold water to dilute, NEVER the other way around unless you want to be running off to the ER - very good chance adding water to acid, its going to splatter and then it gets ugly.
Even today, I remember the little rhyme I was taught at school, (and forgot to put it into my post, so thanks Gene);

"Do as you oughta, add acid to water".

Applies to those of us still working with Sodium Hydroxide, too.
Title: Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
Post by: kephra on May 17, 2015, 01:32:12 PM
The thing is, with Muriatic acid off the shelf, would you know it's Molarity? (and therefore have some idea of it's pH) I am guessing that might be MUCH stronger than the stuff I have. Maybe there would be a way to figure out what dilution to come close to the pH 1.0 -- 2.0 range? 
I think that would translate to 0.1 M ---0.01 M
...
HCL is a gas, and the maximum concentration you can make is about 36% because of its solubility in water.  At 36%, its pH is about -1  (note negative pH)
The maximum strength for hydrochloric acid is then about 10 Molar.  (Molecular weight of HCL gas is approx 36)
pH is the negative logarithm of the hydrogen ion concentration (molarity)
From that, you can calculate the molarity to get a given pH as:
1/(10^pH)

Example  to get a pH of 2 using 36% acid: 1/(10^2) = 1/100 = 0.01 Molar.  0.01 Molar HCL must have 36*0.01 grams of HCL gas per liter or 0.36 gram of HCL.

Next you have to calculate the amount of 10 Molar acid (36%) per liter to get a pH of +2
Amount of acid  (gms of HCL needed for wanted pH)/(gms of HCL per liter of stock acid) * 1000 ml = 0.36 /360 = 1 ml

Here is another example, to get a pH of 2.5 using 1 Molar acid:
Molarity of a pH of 2.5 = 1/(10 ^ 2.5) = 1/316 = 0.0032 Molar.
Amount of 1 Molar acid to make 1 Liter of pH 2.5 would then be (0.0032/1)* 1000 = 3.2 ml
Amount of 0.1 Molar acid to make 1 Liter of ph 2.5 would be (0.0032/0.1) * 1000 = 32 ml

These calculations assume starting with pH 7 water, which is probably not the case because of dissolved CO2, but the difference in final pH is small for ending pH values below 3.  IE:  for exact results you have to include the acidity of the carbonic acid already in the water.


Title: Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
Post by: Gene on May 17, 2015, 07:14:44 PM
According to the jug, HD issue muriatic acid is 20 degrees Baume, 31.45% HCL.  So its pretty close to the maximum concentration Kephra stated earlier.  And I can attest to the fact that it indeed does fume when you unscrew the cap on the jug.

Apparently another use for this (for real) is to quickly adjust the PH of a swimming pool (says so right on the product information).

I think what the place Rick got his HCL from was saying is that above the concentrate he got, the stuff probably starts to fume.  Those fumes are concentrated HCL and should not be allowed to collect in a confined space, so enter the use of a fume hood and protective gear.  Basically, they're being restrictive to protect their own butts (like usual) in restricting sale of more concentrated even given you can buy muriatic acid cheaply pretty much in any good hardware or home box store, no questions asked.
Title: Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
Post by: RickinWI on May 17, 2015, 09:15:05 PM
So then from what Kephra said it looks like you would need only about 1.2 ml of your Muriatic acid in a Liter of DW to get you close to pH 2.0

Wow, that stuff must be wicked strong.
Title: Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
Post by: Gene on May 21, 2015, 12:08:58 AM
Strong enough and battery acid is around the same percentage solution.  The difference is that sulfuric acid (H2SO4 if I'm remembering my chemistry correctly) isn't a gas like HCL so it doesn't fume.  At 30-35% muriatic acid does.  And those fumes are HCL so be careful.
Title: Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
Post by: Stagno on May 24, 2015, 03:54:21 PM

Thinking outloud about the digestive process: Isn't there something that is also secreted toward the beginning end of the small intestine that is supposed to neutralize the acid remaining from the stomach? I wonder what that substance is & if I could get some of that to check the capped colloidal silver with?

  If I remember my biology from collage correctly the substance secreted into the small intestine to alkalise the acid is sodium bicarbonate,so that shouldn't hurt the colloidal silver one bit  :)
Title: Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
Post by: FromTheDen on May 24, 2015, 05:12:40 PM
Kephra,
The www.nanocomposix.eu (http://www.nanocomposix.eu) reference toward the beginning of this thread (under the Particle Stability sub-title) states,
Quote
Silver nanoparticles are also susceptible to light (especially ultraviolet light) and should be stored in the dark.
It seems like your study/experience has been that while ionic silver is sensitive to light, colloidal silver is not.

Would you mind elaborating on light sensitivity?
Title: Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
Post by: RickinWI on May 24, 2015, 05:21:03 PM
@ Stango:  Actually I tried adding Baking Soda to Cinnamon Reduced colloidal silver and I posted a pic of the result in this thread:
http://www.cgcsforum.org/index.php?topic=2164.15

Theoretically the Cinn Reduced should hold up better than Glucose reduced colloidal silver since the Cinn also caps the particles (or caps them better than Glucose). Obviously from the pic, not good enough.

I will try the baking soda against Glucose Reduced & then Gel-Capped colloidal silver next time I make a batch. (All out right now)   Will follow up on this though.

Thanks for letting us know it's sod bicarb. Makes sense since that seems like something the body could make to neutralize acid.
Title: Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
Post by: Stagno on May 24, 2015, 10:06:15 PM
Interesting results. I imagine the colour is from the particles agglomerating (pls correct me if I'm wrong). Kephra's gelatine capped seemed to hold up ok though,will be interesting to see how your experiment turns out. 

I've had a similar thing happen when adding borax to silver when making creams,it starts to turn red,but only sometimes and sometimes it stays clear and yellow,this is with glucose reduced and it has been consistent with different batches one batch works fine and another turns red. I have no idea why some batches do and some don't as they're all made consistently the same with the same apparatus for the same time etc.  Scratches head  ???
Title: Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
Post by: PeterXXL on June 01, 2015, 12:16:19 AM
At... http://biorelevant.com/fassif-fessif-fassgf-dissolution-media/fasted-fed-state-simulated-intestinal-gastric-fluid/how-to-make/

there's a formula for making simulated gastric fluid. And if we don't bother about the pepsin (an enzyme in the stomach fluid) the formula for making 500 ml simulated gastric fluid is as follows:

Prepare HCl/NaCl solution
Dissolve:
1.000 g of NaCl,
in about 0.450 L of purified water.
Adjust the pH to 1.6 with HCl.
Make up to volume (0.500 L) with purified water at room temperature.

But since the enzyme pepsin degrades all proteins, including gelatin, we need to add pepsin as well. And according to http://biology.clc.uc.edu/courses/bio105/digestiv.htm Quote: "containing 50 to 300 µg pepsin/mL" End quote. This mean that we have to add 25 to 150 mg pepsin to the above 500 ml.

Also, according to Wikipedia... Quote: "Pepsin is most active in acidic environments between 37 °C and 42 °C" End quote. So we need to warn the solution to body temperature before test.

Both hydrochloric acid and pepsin can be bought on the net.
Title: Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
Post by: fishing4fun on June 01, 2015, 01:39:37 AM
You guys are sure making progress with this acid tests and information, i really like what Rick has done along with the help of others here, its great stuff to read except i feel like the only one here with a iq under 100  :D
Title: Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
Post by: RickinWI on June 01, 2015, 04:53:32 AM
 I tried a few different concentrations of the acid & I always added salt. I tried the 1/10 Molar (which is supposedly pH 1.0) at 9:1 (shooting for pH 2.0) ; 3:1 (shooting for pH 1.4) and eventually when those did well I also tried the straight 1/10 Molar not diluted at all. I wasn't very scientific about the amount of salt I added.  A hefty pinch in 30 ml colloidal silver + 10 ml Acid. I probably had more salt than the formula you found called for. I don't have a reliable way to measure pH down that low.

The most severe test I did was the straight 1/10 Molar acid with plenty of salt. The Gel-Cap colloidal silver lasted at least overnight. All these tests were done at room temp of about 68*F (20*C) so really should be re-done at 100*F and with the addition of Pepsin.

Now just need to find some Pepsin & my "round tuit".
Title: Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
Post by: PeterXXL on June 26, 2015, 09:37:10 PM
I prepared a 100 ml solution of HCl and NaCl according to the instructions I've referred to in an earlier post in this thread, and according to the instructions by Kephra for calculating the correct amount of HCl to get a pH of 1. The pH was then tested with pH-paper to confirm that it was 1. I used a HCl with a 30% concentration.

The 100 ml solution was heated to 37 degree Celsius then divided in two x 50 ml for two tests.

In the first test I added 1 ml of a previously made batch of 250 ml of 500 ppm (125 mg) colloidal silver that where the reduction was made with 1 ml Cinnamon extract and capped with 200 mg Gelatin.

http://oi59.tinypic.com/10ge2rs.jpg (http://oi59.tinypic.com/10ge2rs.jpg)

The second test is similar, but it was a batch of 250 ml of 400 ppm (100 mg) colloidal silver that was reduced with 160 mg Maltose and capped with 200 mg Gelatin.

http://oi61.tinypic.com/35lhys8.jpg (http://oi61.tinypic.com/35lhys8.jpg)

As can be seen, both tests was clear, and they are both still clear now after ~30 minutes, which should confirm that the gelatin protects the nanoparticles.

I have ordered Pepsin, so that I should be able to prepare better test solutions, as Pepsin degrades proteins (which is one component in Gelatin). And I will make more tests then to confirm whether the's enough of Gelatin to withstand the Pepsin.

But this should at least confirm that Gelatin is a good capping agent for withstanding the gastric acid and salt down to a pH-level of 1.
Title: Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
Post by: RickinWI on June 26, 2015, 10:02:49 PM
Great work. If you have any uncapped Dextrose or Maltose Reduced colloidal silver around put some acid in there to confirm my original testing.
Thanks.

BTW: when the acid destroys my colloidal silver it does not stay yellow & get cloudy. Rather it either turns clear (no more yellow) or with some things I added it changed to different colors.
Title: Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
Post by: SanchoPanza on June 26, 2015, 10:26:38 PM
Here ya go Rick, get to it !  ;)

http://www.carolina.com/catalog/detail.jsp?prodId=879377&s_cid=ppc_gl_products&gclid=CjwKEAjw8LOsBRDdub-swPW8riISJAAnmS01no_Z2MDadFWNOP8xZURwNpwDKF01dz2yXxg-LS_09xoCVIfw_wcB

-Sancho
Title: Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
Post by: SanchoPanza on June 27, 2015, 04:15:46 PM
Rick, Looks like Peter beat you to the Pepsin.   :(
Let us know how it goes Peter!

-Sancho