Author Topic: Requesting help.  (Read 48371 times)

Offline Gene

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Re: Requesting help.
« Reply #180 on: August 15, 2021, 06:38:01 AM »
The silver oxide turns back into silver and melts to the surface of the wire or bullion bar. It won't get shiny silver color. It looks almost refrigerator white.  It also feels a little strange once cooled.

No you don't have to heat it to red hot.  Just until you get that nice, white color coating on your anode with no darker grey smudges or spots.

I actually use a butane torch - the type professional chefs use.  That gets to about 2500F which is plenty hot enough.  For those without a gas range (my home is electric), this is a good alternative.

Even that cheap little orange colored butane torch from Harbor Freight (I have one of these too) works well also.

indocomp

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Re: Requesting help.
« Reply #181 on: August 15, 2021, 10:32:19 AM »
can we clean it using traditional methode using sodium bicarbonate, warm water and aluminium foil, or i wont works on silver oxide?

i am firing it on top of my gas stove but some area still has burn marks, i am starting to think that my silver not pure enough, i bought it at my brothers in law but maybe he used borax to lower the temp on kowi ceramic surface

Offline Gene

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Re: Requesting help.
« Reply #182 on: August 15, 2021, 07:12:47 PM »
You could just wipe off the grey "dust" BUT in so doing you're throwing away a lot of valuable silver.

By flame cleaning you're converting the grey silver oxide on the surface back to silver thats melted to the rest of the bar or wire.

I don't know how to check silver purity, sorry. I just buy 3 9's purity from a reputable supplier and call it even.

Offline cfnisbet

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Re: Requesting help.
« Reply #183 on: August 16, 2021, 08:57:22 AM »
The best way of checking purity of silver is to walk into a jeweller's shop and ask him to have it hallmarked. That's what I would do if I were selling Colloidal Silver commercially. Failing that (quite a lot cheaper), just ask him to acid-test it (or buy an acid-test kit from ebay or amazon.

indocomp

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Re: Requesting help.
« Reply #184 on: August 17, 2021, 05:25:22 AM »
I have seen very tiny small bubbles fogs smokes rapidly coming out from the cathode going towards anode, this is normal right??
Parts of the process or wrong polarity ? i think i read something about OH- release from the cahthode,
but i cant remember where, please help

This is the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrz7sWT0Y-A

Please have a look
« Last Edit: August 17, 2021, 07:14:08 AM by indocomp »

Offline cfnisbet

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Re: Requesting help.
« Reply #185 on: August 17, 2021, 08:41:44 AM »
Normal. Electrodes undergoing electrolysis split water into oxygen and hydrogen as well as the silver oxide creation process. You are just seeing microscopic oxygen and hydrogen bubbles.

indocomp

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Re: Requesting help.
« Reply #186 on: August 17, 2021, 08:54:46 AM »
Great, thank you for the explanation
I though i saw too high current, too high voltage or probably worst wrong polarity
Anyway small wire (25 gauge ) need longer rod sink under the water surface to get same 13.5 mA compare with 12 gauge
but longer wire means more water split like my video, and from what i read thats a better way of processing it right?
A post inside one of the articles said the smaller the wire the better
Just to be sure
Thanks

Offline kephra

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Re: Requesting help.
« Reply #187 on: August 17, 2021, 12:49:21 PM »
Quote
I have seen very tiny small bubbles fogs smokes rapidly coming out from the cathode going towards anode, this is normal right??
Yes normal.
The bubbles are pure hydrogen caused by the reduction of sodium hydroxide at the cathode.

The sodium instantly reacts with water giving off Hydrogen.
2Na + 2H2O --> 2NaOH +H2
« Last Edit: August 17, 2021, 01:07:52 PM by kephra »
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Offline Gene

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Re: Requesting help.
« Reply #188 on: August 18, 2021, 03:18:48 AM »
The "smoke" that you read about, if you shine a light through the cell and see long wispy "arms" of cloudy solution (a.k.a. "smoke" by analogy) coming off the anode where they kind of linger or meander around some, you need to drop the current you're running at as its too high for the surface area of the anode you're using.

What you're seeing is silver oxide being pushed off the anode that has yet to dissolve because its being produced too quickly by too high a current.  It may dissolve, it may not but seeing this, you're either borderline or over the wire and really need to back things down until you stop seeing it and then back off another milliamp or two or three for some wiggle room.

The bubbles around the cathode are normal, expected and what you WANT to see.

Anode "smoke"? NOT!

Sometimes I see it but then look closely and find that there's a lot of bubbles attached to the anode wire (no clue why because they weren't there right before I started up the cell) which are effectively limiting the surface area on the wire in contact with the water where just tapping the connection to the wire outside the cell creates enough mechanical vibration to knock them all off and everything returns to normal and this doesn't happen again during the run.  This doesn't happen often but I have seen it more than once and am still perplexed as to whats causing it and why. No, I'm not stirring - just letting the convection current in the water from the container being bottom heated, keeping the water at 150F, to keep things in motion.

indocomp

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Re: Requesting help.
« Reply #189 on: August 27, 2021, 02:22:46 PM »
Hi I follow instruction on this forum for 160 ppm which is

2 grams of gelatine soak and heated until its clear again
0,5 ml of 50:50 karo vodka diluted
1ml sodium carbonate solution
1000ml dw
heated to around 75 degree and start the process

I follow Gene method using 7,5 mA and i am using 6 Square inch bar so i dont need to fire clean my anode

Why after 5 minutes the colour already start to change to yellow
and after 10 minutes it started getting dark tea colour , and when the process move forward the result get darker and darker
I dont think the is turbidity because the when i use my mobile phone through it, the clarity looks fine

Too little current or too much reducer or too much capping agent ? or too hot ?
Please help

thank you
« Last Edit: August 28, 2021, 01:20:42 AM by indocomp »

Offline kephra

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Re: Requesting help.
« Reply #190 on: August 27, 2021, 04:19:24 PM »
I suspect your current measurements are way off.
Also, why make liter batches until you learn the process.  Why not make 250ml batches?
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Offline Gene

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Re: Requesting help.
« Reply #191 on: August 27, 2021, 10:15:30 PM »
I'm assuming you mean 75C, right? Because 75F isn't very hot (wink) and certainly not hot enough to make 320PPM.

I too think your current measurement must be way off (or you live in a temporal distortion - wink) because for me it takes a good 15-20 minutes before I even start to notice any perceptible color change during a run.

A larger anode doesn't mean faster production unless you up the current. Its benefit is that the larger surface area allows you to move the current up without getting into a region where you're producing silver oxide faster than it can dissolve which is when you see that "smoke" which isn't good.

Your anode will produce silver oxide just as fast as my 14 gauge 6" wire one will at 7.5ma (wink). So yeah, something has got to be off on your end.  Given the only thing that can change the color of the water is the reduction of silver oxide to Colloidal Silver, the rapid color change says you're producing much faster and the only thing that can cause this is a much higher current.

So you might want to check your meter and your measurements to try and figure out what could be wrong.

indocomp

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Re: Requesting help.
« Reply #192 on: August 27, 2021, 11:59:33 PM »
yup, i run start from 75 degree celcius minimum 70 degree celcius
i have been succeded few batches making 18 ppm without any problem using 13.5 ppm around 20 minutes so i want to try 160 ppm
I always failed making a colloidal silver even at 20 ppm if reducer add up front, any effect of using microwave to heat is faster?

Yesterday i also measure the weight of the silver bar i used
the different is 70mg less before and after process at about 2 hours and 30 minutes almost identical with our formulation

(1*70*15) / 7.5 , which is 140 minutes
so i think the current was not  way too high
if too high probably in 140 minutes  the silver would lose more than 70 mg right?

when i try my first attempt using 13.5 mA i got high turbidity because not enough electrolyte i guess, because i am using 0.8 ml for 1 litre dw
for 2nd attempt its quite clear but it started change colour in just 5 to 10 minutes rapidly and now in 140 minutes the colour look like 200 ppm

so i guess maybe we can elliminate the current
too much reducing agent or too much gelatine wont hurt right? ( I used 2 grams exactly as calculator but for knox:vodka i use around 4 grams )

my guess is too little current or impurities from melted product when its heated, or maybe silver impurities another thing is my preparation procedure i heated the gelatin, electrolyte and karo and stirred too long before started electrolysis

below are my 18 ppm gel capped
the 2nd picture is my 70 ppm after 140 minutes run
« Last Edit: August 28, 2021, 12:36:00 AM by indocomp »

indocomp

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Re: Requesting help.
« Reply #193 on: August 29, 2021, 06:11:36 AM »
Hi sir
My hot plate magnetic stirrer that i recently bought only able to heat maximum 75⁰c , the plate it self around 100 degree up but the liquid inside the breaker seems hard to reach 80⁰c
Is it possible if i want to make 320 ppm at maximum 75⁰c

Thanks

Offline Gene

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Re: Requesting help.
« Reply #194 on: August 29, 2021, 08:05:47 AM »
Unless its the lighting,  that 70PPM batch looks WAY too dark.