Author Topic: Colloidal Silver Color Samples  (Read 64918 times)

Offline kephra

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Re: Colloidal Silver Color Samples
« Reply #60 on: November 30, 2017, 06:13:11 PM »
Great! I love the sound of success :)
There is the unknown and the unknowable.  It's a wise man who knows the difference.

onandoff

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Re: Colloidal Silver Color Samples
« Reply #61 on: December 15, 2017, 02:41:00 AM »
320 ppm dilutions are added in the first post.

I don't want use gmo reducer 1st run 50-50 karo  5 drops at   20 drops washing soda add together I tried 120 ppm clean silver with blow torch. I came out with 40 ppm used spinner ands cleaned constantly what am I doing wrong same problem . Tried made with Organic Ceylon volka 2 days in ta bag 3-4 drops . still can get silvertron get  above 40 ppm

Offline kephra

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Re: Colloidal Silver Color Samples
« Reply #62 on: December 15, 2017, 03:25:12 AM »
What GMO reducer?  There is no genetic material in Karo corn syrup.
How do you know its 40 ppm?
You need to be more specific with your procedure.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 03:56:28 PM by kephra »
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Etheric Zone 1111

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Re: Colloidal Silver Color Samples
« Reply #63 on: August 02, 2018, 11:16:46 PM »
Using your 20 PPM formula my fist 2 batches came out a beautiful golden yellow!
Thank you very much Sir for your time and help.

Ed

Offline kephra

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Re: Colloidal Silver Color Samples
« Reply #64 on: August 03, 2018, 12:10:08 AM »
Yep that looks pretty good!
There is the unknown and the unknowable.  It's a wise man who knows the difference.

Etheric Zone 1111

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Re: Colloidal Silver Color Samples
« Reply #65 on: August 03, 2018, 12:13:50 AM »
It taste good too! No metallic taste 👍

FlyingDutchman

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Re: Colloidal Silver Color Samples
« Reply #66 on: November 22, 2018, 05:57:00 PM »
Hi Kephra, I am new to the forum, so please bear with me... I have started experimenting in August this year with a two-step process: First generating ionic silver with cold water LDVC method and then reducing under heated conditions. In order to estimate ppm of total silver content I rely on Faraday's formula (apart from color of reduced end product). From what I understood, in 1 hour, close to 20mg of silver ions are stripped off at 5 mA current flow. So, in 1 liter of water I would have 20 ppm total silver content.

If that is correct, why is it that I can produce 320 ppm total silver content in 80 minutes at 15 mA using simultaneous heat reduction? Am I missing something? From the color it seems clear that a high ppm nano silver colloid is achieved, but according to Faraday the total silver content couldn't be more than 80 ppm? Are you referring to the TDS reading, including washing soda and glucose content?

Thank you for your amazing work at the forum, there is tons of knowledge bundled here!

FlyingDutchman

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Re: Colloidal Silver Color Samples
« Reply #67 on: November 22, 2018, 07:03:18 PM »
Thanks for your quick answer, I am glad the math still works!

FlyingDutchman

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Re: Colloidal Silver Color Samples
« Reply #68 on: November 25, 2018, 10:34:35 PM »
I had some time today to try out kephra's 320 ppm protocol, translated to a 80 ppm citrate capped protocol in 1 litre of bi-distilled water, and everything went very smooth thanks to the excellent instructions and reference material available here. As I simply quadrupled the reagents from my 20ppm protocol I guess I arrived somewhere around 80ppm to 100ppm according to the colour samples. Production time 2 hours at an average 10 -12 mA.
Pictures attached of colour during production (30 mins), at completion (2 hours) and diluted 1 + 4 parts distilled water. I will report again whenever I have been able to run some tests or if anything unexpected happens in the next weeks.

FlyingDutchman

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Re: Colloidal Silver Color Samples
« Reply #69 on: November 29, 2018, 07:05:39 PM »
Yes, I agree I have overcomplicated my setup by using two silver electrodes, there is still a lot of room for improvement. Thanks for the pointers.

I would like to get a little deeper into the color and stability issue. It is an issue few people write about, other than saying their silver colloid is 100% stable, or has been stable over a period of a year... but in all cases it is likely that some change takes place in the colloid, right? I have produced colloids in the 15-20 ppm range over the past 6 months with several different protocols, and I have noticed that some seem totally stable, no visible color change over a 4-5 month period. I always keep a small sample in clear glass and daylight conditions.

Some samples show significant red shift after weeks and months. The 80 ppm colloid produced last week that I mentioned in a previous message also seems to show some red shift.

Red shift is a bit tricky, as I understand, because color can be related to particle size (red shift between 2.2 and 12.5 nm and blue shift above 12.5 nm and again a red shift over 20-30nm). Other research relates red shift to change in particle shape (yellow for spherical particles, green and blue for rods and triangles, etc.), with spherical particles being the smallest (largest surface area). I guess the color change, in any case, is related to increased agglomeration, due to influence of radiation (light, heat), as it happens over time (I don't suppose we could count with a spontaneous particle size reduction).

But what I was wondering about specifically, is about the influence of the amount of reducing and capping agent (I agree that an excess of glucose does not seem to have a bad influence, or even seems to have a positive influence on shelf life), and the time you leave the colloid cooking after cutting off the energy to the electrodes? What would be your explanation about red shift in this short period of time? Lack of capping? Overcooking? Excess agglomeration due to other processes?

Offline cfnisbet

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Re: Colloidal Silver Color Samples
« Reply #70 on: November 29, 2018, 07:56:18 PM »
...But what I was wondering about specifically, is about the influence of the amount of reducing and capping agent (I agree that an excess of glucose does not seem to have a bad influence, or even seems to have a positive influence on shelf life), and the time you leave the colloid cooking after cutting off the energy to the electrodes? What would be your explanation about red shift in this short period of time? Lack of capping? Overcooking? Excess agglomeration due to other processes?
I have used the same amount of capping agent and electrolyte on all occasions. When you get something that works, it is a good idea to always be consistent. With reducing agents, I have found that glucose and fructose (particularly fructose) both tend to make the end result slightly turbid or cloudy.

However, Maltodextrin reduces the Colloidal Silver very slightly slower, and always produces a perfect result in my setup. I have never had a failure with Cinnamon-reduced Colloidal Silver, but this is regarded as a bit old-fashioned by most forum members, who tend to prefer gelatine capping/Karo reduction due to enhanced stability in the stomach.

The only thing that can happen after the current is shut off, is further (more complete) reduction. I particularly see this when I make heat-reduced Colloidal Silver.

My advice would be to be as consistent as possible. If you alter anything, only alter one thing at a time. The only instability I have ever seen is Ionic Silver Oxide tends to reduce, badly and variably, over time. Sometimes it remains clear, other times it drops out of solution as very large particles. I seldom make this any more. I would suggest that you may have some form of contamination.

FlyingDutchman

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Re: Colloidal Silver Color Samples
« Reply #71 on: November 30, 2018, 03:01:56 PM »
Quote
There are two types of stabilizers.  One is ionic which stabilizes by the electrostatic repulsion between particles.  This type is not very strong, and is pH dependent.  The other kind is steric, and stabilizes by it size... this is what gelatin does.  Citrate is not a very strong stabilizer, compared to gelatin.  This is one area where size matters.  Citrate is a smaller molecule than glucose, so I believe it will be a less effective stabilizer than glucose.  Maltodextrin is a chain of glucose molecules, varying from 3 to 17 times bigger than a glucose molecule which makes it a better stabilizer than glucose, but still not as good as gelatin.

Interesting details! I have to get my hands on some good animal gelatin to experiment. I have had good results with citrate, but gelatin seems to be the way to go.

FlyingDutchman

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Re: Colloidal Silver Color Samples
« Reply #72 on: November 30, 2018, 03:08:31 PM »
My advice would be to be as consistent as possible. If you alter anything, only alter one thing at a time. The only instability I have ever seen is Ionic Silver Oxide tends to reduce, badly and variably, over time. Sometimes it remains clear, other times it drops out of solution as very large particles. I seldom make this any more. I would suggest that you may have some form of contamination.

Thanks for your comments. I am working toward consistency, as you rightfully suggest, keeping detailed records of all productions, but as I am also interested in experimentation. I tend to vary some of the ingredients and amounts to see what happens. Contamination can be an issue, but I don't believe it is in this case, as the reduction in itself take place normally, and there is no turbidity and no precipitation at all. Other than some red shift, the color and aspect seems to be ok, different from earlier experiments where the color would go away or change to some grayish muddy color.

Offline drewcifer

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Re: Colloidal Silver Color Samples
« Reply #73 on: November 30, 2018, 05:04:54 PM »
Why is 20 ppm the concentration at which we determine the particle size based on the surface plasmon response? I've read numerous articles on this forum which describe this phenomenon and I get that we're seeing the compliment of the blue being absorbed (red + green) and perceiving it as yellow, which is fine. But what is special about "20 ppm" which is the concentration that we use when making inferences regarding particle size. There's something I'm not getting, 20 PPM seems like an arbitrary value.

When we make the more concentrated stuff, what different sort of reasoning are we using to explain the color change? Obviously, it seems to be related to the concentration, but how am I to understand this difference in color change? This color change seems to be completely unrelated to the plasmon response explanation.

Sorry, if I'm belaboring some point that's obvious to others, I just can't wrap my head around it, especially the "why we use 20 ppm as the baseline."
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'Einstein was consistent, clear, down to earth and wrong'
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Offline cfnisbet

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Re: Colloidal Silver Color Samples
« Reply #74 on: December 01, 2018, 11:38:05 AM »
...
20 ppm is also the strength most people start out making, and thus know what it should look like.
Until one can replicate the easiest version, there is no point in trying anything more adventurous. I well remember my first efforts at making what I thought was Colloidal Silver, but which was in fact Ionic Silver Oxide. I had no idea what I was actually making, or what the strength was.

I thank Kephra for rectifying my knowledge in both respects.