Author Topic: silver solubility and temp  (Read 169 times)

Offline dimoune

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silver solubility and temp
« on: April 09, 2021, 02:34:44 PM »
Hello,

I would be interested to know about silver solubility at different temperatures. Is there a chart which shows different ppm level and temperature requires to maintain solubility before it agglomerates? Thanks.

Offline Gene

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Re: silver solubility and temp
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2021, 08:40:00 PM »
There was something somewhere but just to state a few temps (ones I know),...

At room temp (this is 75F, NOT 68F), about 21-22PPM max.

At 150F, about 40PPM.

Silver oxide is not overly soluble in water. I don't know what it is at a higher temp but I doubt from 150F to 200F you'd be up even as high as 60PPM.

From what I've heard, most people who manufacture higher PPM Colloidal Silver here run around 150-160F.  Thats hot enough that adding the reducer at the beginning of the run for the total PPM you're making (plus a little extra for "insurance"), reduction can keep ahead of production fast enough that you never exceed the solubility limit in this temperature range which is all you're really looking for.

Running at 10ma, it takes 30 minutes to pull 20mg of silver into solution (that'd be a liter of 20PPM). At 150F, you can get to 40PPM before you have issues so thats a whole hour. For sure the reducer is going to do its job much more quickly than you're producing...  As long as your rate of reduction outpaces your rate of production, you can basically go as high as you want in PPM - for sure 320PPM which a lot of guys here make.  Processing cold, you will most likely run into issues just so its said.

Offline dimoune

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Re: silver solubility and temp
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2021, 09:27:06 PM »
Thanks Gene for the very clear explanation.

This explains the limit of heat. We cannot make high ppm Colloidal Silver with heat alone and need to add the reducing agent at the beginning of the process.

I see some members who make 320 ppm add the gelatin at the end of the process instead of the beginning. Is it ok to wait for the end of the process to add the gelatin without affecting the stability of the solution and/or silver particle size?

Offline Gene

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Re: silver solubility and temp
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2021, 03:34:29 AM »
I can't speak with any authority regarding 320PPM as I've never seen the need to make it. I usually make 2-4 quarts of 120PPM gel capped a year for myself and friends and thats good enough.

When I do make 120PPM though, I choose to add the gelatine AFTER the run.

You could add the pre-bloomed dissolved but I choose to just sprinkle the powder very thinly on the surface of the hot solution (NO lumps as they won't dissolve) and as it sinks keep adding until its all there. THis only takes a minute or two.  Then I close the lid and let it sit 4 or 5 minutes and stir with a wooden chopstick. Reason being, it isn't cold so there's no way I could pick up any concentrated gelatine on it.  A few stirs, put the lid back on and let cool and I'm done.

Given I don't make that much anymore, it seems a waste to make the pre-dissolved stuff and store it in a fridge.  I really don't know how long that would stay good and I'm thinking I may have to chuck it before the next time I get around to making more.

Nothing wrong with pre-dissolving it in a little water before adding though.  I may try that next time.  I probably will also try adding it at the beginning of the run so when I get around to it, I may post my findings on the forum.

I've gotten mixed answers as to why you should add it before the run or why after and it seems to me like there's no definitive right or wrong answer - just what works best for you.

For sure from what I've read, with the gelatine in there for 320PPM (again, I cannot speak with any authority regarding 320PPM production), about half way through the run you're going to have to pause and flame clean the anode.

Offline kephra

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Re: silver solubility and temp
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2021, 03:11:21 PM »
There is a big difference in the final product if you add gelatin at the end of a 320 ppm run.  According to the published data for gelatin capped Colloidal Silver, the particle size is about 10nm.  Adding it after electrolysis  results in larger particle size. 
Colloidal Silver is only a bargain if you make it yourself.

Offline Gene

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Re: silver solubility and temp
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2021, 11:46:20 PM »
Is that true also for lesser concentrations like 120PPM?