Colloidal Silver and Gold Forum

Production Techniques and Chemistry => Colloidal Silver Production => Topic started by: PeterXXL on July 01, 2015, 10:19:48 PM

Title: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for Colloidal Silver
Post by: PeterXXL on July 01, 2015, 10:19:48 PM
I've so far used Gelatin as the best choice as capping agent when making colloidal silver that is used orally. Gelatin is an animal product, and as lots of people are vegetarians or vegans, there must be options. And I have looked at the following alternatives...

- Pectin
- Carrageenan
- Agar (agar-agar)
- Alginic acid (and its salts - alginates)

Pectin, a polysaccharide that comes from fruits, is actually used as a capping agent ( for instance: http://www.scopemed.org/?jft=36&ft=36-1422348209 (http://www.scopemed.org/?jft=36&ft=36-1422348209) )

Carrageenan is also a polysaccharide, which comes from red seaweed, and is also used as a capping agent ( for instance: http://eprints.utm.my/33882/ (http://eprints.utm.my/33882/) )

Agar is derived from the polysaccharide agarrose, which is extracted from red algae, and is also sometimes used ( for instance: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960852411017032 (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960852411017032) )

Alginic acid is an anionic polysaccharide that comes from the cell walls of brown algae. Different alginates seem to be used as capping agents ( for instance: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0925400511000426?np=y (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0925400511000426?np=y) )

They all have in common that they consists of polysaccharides (long chain of mono-saccharrides) and are jelly-like when absorbing water (similar to gelatin), so they should also suit as good capping agents like gelatin. The question is how well they withstand the gastric acid compared to gelatin.

I think that this is something that we should investigate and try out.
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent
Post by: kephra on July 01, 2015, 10:41:39 PM
Go right ahead.
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent
Post by: fishing4fun on July 01, 2015, 11:02:40 PM
This is very interesting if you do proceed in trying any of these please post your results.
I was even thinking about sunflower lecithin but that was just a thought and i have not investigated it any further then just a thought, one thing i would say about lecithin is that the taste is completely bad as if you were eating rubber.
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent
Post by: SanchoPanza on July 01, 2015, 11:18:40 PM
I wondered about pectin as a reducer, never thought of capping though.
If you ever try pectin for capping, I'd be curious to see if it acts as a reducer, maybe on a small sub batch of IS?
I would volunteer to do that, but I'm not ready for qualified for capping experiments yet.
I only recently earned my Maltose badge, but If I get to the store before Peter, I'll try Pectin as a reducer too.

Thanks for the links Peter.

-Sancho
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent
Post by: PeterXXL on July 02, 2015, 12:51:40 AM
Yes, I will try to buy them all and then make some tests, which I share. I also await an order of Pepsin, which is necessary to prepare simulated gastric fluid. I should have it within a few working days, and will then start testing different colloidal silver against simulated gastric fluid to start with.
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent
Post by: cfnisbet on July 06, 2015, 08:10:47 AM
I have seen Agar in the supermarket beside the gelatine and immediately wondered if it would work. I will be investigating this one myself.
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent
Post by: fishing4fun on July 06, 2015, 06:10:41 PM
I have seen Agar in the supermarket beside the gelatine and immediately wondered if it would work. I will be investigating this one myself.
I second that i be going to the store today for some karo syrup so i might as well look for some agar all of these items will depend on your simulated gastric acid test very cool for sure.
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent
Post by: PeterXXL on July 09, 2015, 10:59:19 AM
I can now confirm that Alginate (from brown seaweed algae) as sodium alginate ( NaC6H7O6 ) is a very good capping agent. It absorbes 200 - 300 times its mass of water.  Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alginic_acid#Sodium_alginate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alginic_acid#Sodium_alginate).

I have so far tested 200 mg sodium alginate to 80 ml of 20 ppm cinnamon reduced colloidal silver with simulated gastric fluid, and will now post details about it in that thread.
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for colloidal silver
Post by: cosanostra on March 31, 2019, 03:22:06 PM
Any results on agar-agar?
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for colloidal silver
Post by: FlyingDutchman on April 07, 2019, 11:57:41 PM
I have produced a 100 ppm orange pectin capped nano silver a couple of months ago. I used sodium citrate as (faster) reducing agent, because pectin on its own seems to be a slow reducing agent, and citrate on its own is a weaker capping agent. The result seems very stable, no color alterations and no precipitation. Negative point is it has a very bitter taste!
First picture shows the diluted pectin, second one the 100 ppm pectin capped nano silver.
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for colloidal silver
Post by: FlyingDutchman on April 08, 2019, 12:01:17 AM
Any results on agar-agar?
I have tried agar-agar (food grade) in the past but the colloid was very unstable and created precipitation within a couple of weeks. There may have been other problems in that batch, I have never tried again. I use Aloé vera as a vegan reducing and capping agent, with great success and consistency.
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for colloidal silver
Post by: CaptainRajiv on July 10, 2019, 06:12:04 PM
Hello FlyingDutchman, I guess you are Marc on youtube, isnt it? I have seen all your videos and liked the 'industrial design' feel of it - and you have a very systematic flow to information and the process

I am yet to make my first batch of Colloidal Silver, getting all the equipment together (only power supply pending) - but once I have settled with the basic techniques I would love to try Aloe Vera, as it grows abundantly here in India and in my home garden too, it's an important herb in the Ayurveda with high therapeutic value. That it a vegetarian option makes it even more appealing.
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for colloidal silver
Post by: muhendisane on July 24, 2019, 05:00:24 AM
Any results on agar-agar?
I have tried agar-agar (food grade) in the past but the colloid was very unstable and created precipitation within a couple of weeks. There may have been other problems in that batch, I have never tried again. I use Aloé vera as a vegan reducing and capping agent, with great success and consistency.

What is the amounts of aloe vera and other ingredients, can you share technical details about it, thanks.
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for colloidal silver
Post by: FlyingDutchman on July 25, 2019, 04:50:04 PM
Hello FlyingDutchman, I guess you are Marc on youtube, isnt it? I have seen all your videos and liked the 'industrial design' feel of it - and you have a very systematic flow to information and the process

I am yet to make my first batch of colloidal silver, getting all the equipment together (only power supply pending) - but once I have settled with the basic techniques I would love to try Aloe Vera, as it grows abundantly here in India and in my home garden too, it's an important herb in the Ayurveda with high therapeutic value. That it a vegetarian option makes it even more appealing.

Yes that would be me!
Aloé vera is great, the colloid is very stable and I like to think it may have added benefits. The gel has high polysaccharide content and reasonable protein content. Make sure you take off the skin and latex and clean well to reduce the aloin contamination.

Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for colloidal silver
Post by: FlyingDutchman on July 25, 2019, 05:19:04 PM
What is the amounts of aloe vera and other ingredients, can you share technical details about it, thanks.

I have had repeated success with fully reduced and capped in the proportion of 1,0 litre of ~25ppm ionic with 40mg of Aloé vera gel extract (powder). You can verify this video I made:  https://youtu.be/gtamSlLGPuI
As an option, I add 15-20 drops per litre 1M sodium carbonate to correct pH and reduce buildup issues on the electrodes.
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for colloidal silver
Post by: cfnisbet on July 26, 2019, 11:33:28 AM
Topic set "sticky" as the subject is of great importance to the manufacture of Colloidal Silver for internal use.
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for colloidal silver
Post by: flavapor on August 26, 2019, 11:44:34 PM
Does capping with gelatin, alginate, or aloe create the need for a preservative?  Does the encapsulated silver act as a preservative for itself?
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for colloidal silver
Post by: Gene on August 27, 2019, 07:10:57 AM
I can't speak about alginate or aloe but gelatine (we're talking Knox clear which is animal based - protein) acts as a stabilizer where it gets 100% of the silver particles into the small intestine where a couple enzymes digest the protein letting out the silver particles to be absorbed into the blood.

I've had higher PPM gel-capped Colloidal Silver in a mason jar, sitting on my kitchen table for years. Its still fine.
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for colloidal silver
Post by: RedDogJT on March 31, 2020, 10:17:11 PM
There appears to be another plant based capping agent that has well known medicinal properties which was used as a capping agent in a study done and publish in the International Journal of NanoMedicine:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6875292/

Attached is a cool video of the water spurting out of the tree trunk:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=PcRjP4bwH5I&feature=emb_logo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=PcRjP4bwH5I&feature=emb_logo)
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for colloidal silver
Post by: RedDogJT on April 11, 2020, 12:41:15 AM
This makes me wonder if using another healthy oil, like CBD, would that work as a capping agent? Or do oils not work. (I've got no chemistry background so forgive me the question if its dumb)
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for colloidal silver
Post by: jimwilson042745 on May 03, 2020, 06:11:08 PM
Gastric tests are great. How do you know if the enzymes can remove the capping on the alternatives to gelatin?
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for Colloidal Silver
Post by: ashish.soni on June 10, 2020, 03:20:18 AM
Hi,
I want to try 320 ppm. But I am vegan so I can't use gelatine .
So can I use agar agar.
Or any other capping agent those you mention above would be useful.
Plz suggest me which capping agent to use.
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for Colloidal Silver
Post by: cfnisbet on June 10, 2020, 01:06:31 PM
...Plz suggest me which capping agent to use.
Certainly try cinnamon and agar-agar. Let us know how you get on.
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for Colloidal Silver
Post by: gold purifier on June 20, 2020, 03:30:53 AM
hello friends, i heard that the karo reducer is good only below 20ppm, is this information correct? If so, can you suggest other reducers for higher concentrations?

Thanks in advance
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for colloidal silver
Post by: Yoikyasi on March 08, 2021, 02:00:54 AM
Any results on agar-agar?
I have tried agar-agar (food grade) in the past but the colloid was very unstable and created precipitation within a couple of weeks. There may have been other problems in that batch, I have never tried again. I use Aloé vera as a vegan reducing and capping agent, with great success and consistency.

Mr dutchman have you tested how long an aloe capped colloid will last?
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for Colloidal Silver
Post by: KeyoSuiRono on May 17, 2021, 06:37:53 AM
What about pea protein?
It's readily available, water soluble, high protein content.. I don't know about how different proteins act on the stomach, or how to accurately test that.

But I'll do a run with some and see if it looks safe..

How much protein is generally needed? Is gelatine pure protein?
 
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for Colloidal Silver
Post by: indocomp on September 16, 2021, 05:03:25 AM
hi, its been a while since my last post
I have a question , if i replace knox gel ( non hallal ) with another gel made from cow ( hallal ) will it have same effect in the insenstine?  protein break down by enzimes and absorbed in small intestines?
The reason i asked this because im not sure if gelatine made from pig or cow will have same capping capability and same results inside small intestine

thanks
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for Colloidal Silver
Post by: kephra on September 16, 2021, 09:25:57 AM
Unknown for sure but I expect it would be equivalent.
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for Colloidal Silver
Post by: indocomp on September 16, 2021, 09:56:58 AM
ok thank you, i hope it will be same
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for Colloidal Silver
Post by: dimoune on September 18, 2021, 09:02:08 AM
hi, its been a while since my last post
I have a question , if i replace knox gel ( non hallal ) with another gel made from cow ( hallal ) will it have same effect in the insenstine?  protein break down by enzimes and absorbed in small intestines?
The reason i asked this because im not sure if gelatine made from pig or cow will have same capping capability and same results inside small intestine

thanks

It depends on the gelatine quality. Personally I had good result with a different brand.
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent
Post by: Cyberman on November 11, 2021, 07:52:59 PM
Newbie question: How can you tell if it works?

I have seen Agar in the supermarket beside the gelatine and immediately wondered if it would work. I will be investigating this one myself.
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for Colloidal Silver
Post by: cfnisbet on November 11, 2021, 09:10:43 PM
I would wait until I got a stomach infection (diarrhoea & vomiting), drink 200 mls or so and see if it worked to stop the problem. If it did, it is likely to be effectively capped through the stomach.
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for Colloidal Silver
Post by: tbrod on November 11, 2021, 09:11:05 PM
I have always used Knox brand..no issues.

hi, its been a while since my last post
I have a question , if i replace knox gel ( non hallal ) with another gel made from cow ( hallal ) will it have same effect in the insenstine?  protein break down by enzimes and absorbed in small intestines?
The reason i asked this because im not sure if gelatine made from pig or cow will have same capping capability and same results inside small intestine

thanks

It depends on the gelatine quality. Personally I had good result with a different brand.
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for Colloidal Silver
Post by: Cyberman on December 17, 2021, 02:14:48 AM
Not sure if this capping agent has been mentioned:

Sunflower Lecithin Powder (Vegan Alternative to Gelatin)
NOW Supplements, Sunflower Lecithin with Naturally Occurring Phosphatidyl Choline and Other Phosphatides, Powder, 1-Pound https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MU73UKS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_ZFFoEb7NZYGNG/
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for Colloidal Silver
Post by: Neofizz on December 17, 2021, 10:05:48 PM
I think it was PeterXXL that tried that a few years ago. He reported that it did work for him. He also mentioned the flavor it created and think he decided not to use it.

Edit: It might not have been Peter that tried it but I know it's somewhere in the threads.
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for Colloidal Silver
Post by: returnToEden on January 05, 2022, 08:00:21 AM
Could one just ingest the reduced silver uncapped, accepting that only 75% (according to a comment somewhere I can't find) will make it through to the intestine? And just drink double or larger portions to make up for and/or go beyond the loss?

So the stomach acid would cause some of the silver to agglomerate, what happens then? Would it just pass through the system, or get stuck somewhere? If stuck, it shouldn't cause agyria due to being reduced from ionic state, right? Does the stomach acid cause anything else besides agglomeration?
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for Colloidal Silver
Post by: cfnisbet on January 05, 2022, 09:42:51 AM
You can. It's just far less effective.
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for Colloidal Silver
Post by: kephra on January 05, 2022, 12:51:21 PM
Could one just ingest the reduced silver uncapped, accepting that only 75% (according to a comment somewhere I can't find) will make it through to the intestine? And just drink double or larger portions to make up for and/or go beyond the loss?
This idea came from a Polish research team who tested the effects of simulated stomach acid on silver nanoparticles.  Their research showed that about 25% of the total weight of silver oxidized from the acid producing silver chloride.  Whether the particles agglomerated or not was not tested.

This does not mean that 25% of the particles were turned into silver chloride.  It means that 25% of each particle oxidized to silver chloride.  This would be the surface atoms of the nanoparticle.

That leaves some unanswered important questions.

Is the silver chloride on the outside of the nanoparticle reduced back to silver farther down the digestive tract, perhaps with bile acid, or one of the bodies natural reducing agents like melatonin, vitamin C, glutathione, etc.? UNKNOWN.

If the silver particles agglomerate, are they broken apart again by another digestive process later on?  UNKNOWN.

Do silver nanoparticles with a silver chloride outer layer get absorbed the same as naked silver particles?  UNKNOWN.

These questions will probably never be answered because of the cost and difficulty to do the research.

Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for Colloidal Silver
Post by: returnToEden on January 06, 2022, 01:34:42 AM
The attached photo shows the result of using sunflower lecithin powder for capping @ 20ppm. A stirrer and heat was used throughout the entire process. It appears to be a success, if the color matches 20ppm and the cloudiness (preventing see-thru to white wall) is just due to the lecithin. Am I missing anything?

https://files.catbox.moe/bxkvvy.jpg
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for Colloidal Silver
Post by: Cyberman on January 18, 2022, 09:27:53 PM
I've seen these vegan alternatives to gelatin discussed and researched by some.
- Pectin
- Carrageenan
- Agar (agar-agar)
- Alginic acid (and its salts - alginates)

I realize that being a substitute for gelatin doesn't necessarily make it a good capping agent, but has anyone tried these?

Cornstarch
Guar Gum
Arrowroot
Kanten
Xanthan Gum

Hypromellose (makes strong capsules like gelatin)
Hypromellose is used in a variety of commercial products. It is used as a common substitute for animal gelatin. It is also used as a covering or binder in tablets, in addition to being used as an ingredient in the capsules.

I am especially interested in Hypromellose. It sounds very promising. It might be better than gelatin.
https://www.saintytec.com/hpmc-capsule/ (https://www.saintytec.com/hpmc-capsule/)

https://www.amazon.com/BulkSupplements-Hypromellose-Powder-100-grams/dp/B075H46K11/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2OIW7A785ZGHZ&keywords=hypromellose&qid=1642537514&sprefix=hypromellose%2Caps%2C120&sr=8-5 (https://www.amazon.com/BulkSupplements-Hypromellose-Powder-100-grams/dp/B075H46K11/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2OIW7A785ZGHZ&keywords=hypromellose&qid=1642537514&sprefix=hypromellose%2Caps%2C120&sr=8-5)
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for Colloidal Silver
Post by: kephra on January 18, 2022, 10:27:47 PM
You might find this interesting:
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/arious-types-of-the-stabilizers-used-for-stabilization-of-nanoformulations-PVP_fig5_274960213

When I embarked on the silver nanoparticle journey,   I was very concerned about the safety of the products used in the production of the Colloidal Silver.  I soon realized that If there were only food products used, there could be no toxins produced from the oxidation of the reducing agents.  The body oxidizes foods to get energy so it is expert in dealing with and using the oxidation byproducts of creating energy from food.  Thus my usage of sugars and proteins like gelatin. 

But a good substitute for gelatin may be polyvinylpyrrolidone (PVP) which is like a synthetic starch.  It is non-toxic, and has a high molecular weight.  A recent research paper showed that silver nanoparticles capped with PVP and used as a nasal spray and mouth wash would prevent SARS-2 virus from infecting a person.

It is readily available, and I have made 20ppm PVP capped Colloidal Silver for the above purpose.  PVP is stable across a wide range of pH so probably would withstand stomach acid, but I have not tested that.

A molecule of PVP (that I bought) weighs 40,000 daltons, while an atom of Ag weighs 107 daltons.  So it is 374 times heavier then silver.     
Since only the surface atoms of silver need to be covered with PVP and since a 14nm silver particle has only 10% of its atoms on its surface,  I calculated that I needed 187 mg of PVP, and rounded up to 200mg to make 250ml of 20ppm PVP capped Colloidal Silver.  I suspect that less may be needed since the molecule is so large.

I haven't tried higher ppms with it.
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for Colloidal Silver
Post by: Cyberman on March 11, 2022, 01:28:29 PM
Thank you.
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for Colloidal Silver
Post by: Heino_R on March 07, 2023, 12:41:54 PM
A very effective capping agent is the cow's milk casein denatured by alkaline cleavage (cooking in caustic soda), as used in „Collargol“. For 20ppm colloiadal silver only about 5ppm of this capping agent is needed. So, for 250 ml of 20 ppm colloidal silver 1 mg of this milk protein is required.

This 120 year old colloiadal silver product named „Collargol“  is still used for externally use in Otorhinolaryngology and as eye drops.

It is a very interesting product that is produced in dehydrated form and can be redispersed in almost any concentration.

A few years ago, i was able to successfully produce the collargol, as it is still documented today in the european pharmacopoeia, based on a recipe from 1931.
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for Colloidal Silver
Post by: kephra on March 07, 2023, 05:39:45 PM
A very effective capping agent is the cow's milk casein denatured by alkaline cleavage (cooking in caustic soda), as used in „Collargol“. For 20ppm colloiadal silver only about 5ppm of this capping agent is needed. So, for 250 ml of 20 ppm colloidal silver 1 mg of this milk protein is required.
...
Long time, no see.  Welcome back!.
When I look up Collargol, my source says it contains albumin, basically egg white.  If it works well enough, it might be possible to make colloidal silver capsules or tablets.  The amount of silver and stabilizer would be so small that an additional filler would probably be required to make the product a reasonable size.  A centrifuge would probably be required also. 
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for Colloidal Silver
Post by: Heino_R on March 07, 2023, 07:35:12 PM
Hello Kephra, long time ago. Yes, the Albuin of the egg white was also used earlier. Then later the casein of cow's milk.

A centrifuge is not required. It is concentrated by precipitation with acetic acid (20% vinegar) and washed several times with water. After neutralizing the acid with NaOH, it will be redissolved and can be easily dried at a low temperature. Everything is possible in the kitchen.

Redispersible colloidal gold can also be produced in this way.

All without residues of electrolytes!
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for Colloidal Silver
Post by: Heino_R on March 13, 2023, 06:34:46 PM
If it works well enough, it might be possible to make colloidal silver capsules or tablets.  The amount of silver and stabilizer would be so small that an additional filler would probably be required to make the product a reasonable size. 

In a manual "Modern Therapy in Internal Medicine and General Practice"  from 1949  , you can read:
“ The Application per os, also for intestinal diseases, is mostly used for sub-chronic and chronic diseases (tapes), either as a solution Collargol 2, Mucilag. Gi. arab. 30, aq. ad 200, 1 teaspoon 3 times a day, or in pillform Collargol 1, Sacchar. lact. 10,
glycerin q. s. ut. f. pil. Dos. C, daily. 10 pills.


https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-662-30220-0 (https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-662-30220-0)
Title: Re: Alternative to using Gelatin as capping agent for Colloidal Silver
Post by: RiskyBiscuit on December 08, 2023, 04:32:47 PM
Capping other supplements? Does anyone know about capping other supplements that do not make it through digestion? I am looking into capping Vitamin C or  EDTA. I have seen someone make liposomal Vitamin C but capping would be much easier. Thanks for any insights!