Colloidal Silver and Gold Forum

Production Techniques and Chemistry => Colloidal Silver Production => Topic started by: kephra on September 04, 2017, 05:38:13 PM

Title: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on September 04, 2017, 05:38:13 PM
If you are having trouble with your process and seek help, please note the following.

1) Read the Articles.  The answer to almost all questions can be found there.
2) Supply details about your process.  Saying that something didn't work, without providing details is like saying "my car doesn't run, whats wrong with it"
3) Supply photos if possible so we can see your setup.
 
The more details you supply with your queries, the faster and better the responses will be.

Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: nix2p on September 04, 2017, 06:56:39 PM
If you are having trouble with your process and seek help, please note the following.

1) Read the Articles.  The answer to almost all questions can be found there.
2) Supply details about your process.  Saying that something didn't work, without providing details is like saying "my car doesn't run, whats wrong with it"
3) Supply photos if possible so we can see your setup.
 
The more details you supply with your queries, the faster and better the responses will be.

- I like that! Thank you Kep.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Rettan on December 15, 2017, 01:56:36 PM
I dont have any plateout on the cathode, but the anode gets very dark.

What product is it that builds up on the anode that makes it shades of grey and even total black if you let it go without cleaning for like 15 min. Also what happens if you dont clean it? Will silver still continue to be oxidized into the water? 
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on December 15, 2017, 02:33:23 PM
The black on the anode is undissolved silver oxides which is normal.  It does not prevent silver ions from entering the water, and does not affect the calibration.  The only thing to watch out for is the oxide flaking off into the water.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Rettan on December 15, 2017, 02:42:20 PM
I had an interesting experience with bought 10ppm ionic silver. I used this product instead of distilled/deionized water when i tried to produce high ppm Colloidal Silver. This is what happened:

I used 500 ml of said product, dissolved 1/2 tablespoon of gelatin in it. Then heated it with a double-boiler to like 80-85 degrees Celcius, I wanted closer to boiling point but couldnt without a lid, and a lid would have prevented the electrodes.

Then when it was dissolved I put in 53 mg of sodiumcarbonate (Using an accurate scale) and some glucose syrup (about the volume specified in your silvertron manual+ some extra for safety). I might have made a mistake here, because the gelatin wasnt fully dissolved yet when I added the sodiumcarbonate + glucose syrup, dont know if this matters.

Usually when i make 20 ppm ionic Colloidal Silver and then reduce it with glucose syrup the shift in color will begin already at maybe 40 degrees C, and then be complete at 50-55 C.

Since I had used my store bought 10ppm IS (which I have reduced as it is on earlier occasions just to check if it really was silver in it) I expected to see a color change in the interval of about 50 degrees C when i started heating the solution, (still hadnt put in the electrodes at this time).

Strangely I didnt see any difference in color at 60 degress C, so I put in more sodiumcarbonate (about another 53mg, thinking the pH was wrong), I also added some more syrup (about doubling that too), still nothing happening at 60 degrees.

Then when it reached 65-70+ degrees C, it started to change color fast, and it became much darker  (with a little reddish tint) than what the same product (10 ppm bought IS) had been when i reduced it without gelatin on earlier occasions, also without gelatin it turned light transparant yellow at about 50-55 degrees C.

I then continued at about 80-85 degrees C to put in the electrodes and had them going for 40 minutes at 15 volts and 15 mA (have bars for electrodes).

The solution now went very dark. But according to my brief calculations in my head, the solution should only be 80-90 ppm (due to the 10pp already in the IS from the beginning)

My question is:
Was it due to the gelatin that the product changed color at a much higher temperature, and then became very dark (a little reddish actually). Let me remind you, this was only 10ppm bought IS (which I have reduced from the bottle to make very light yellow colored product before) but it looked like 80 from the pictures I've seen here. So before I even put in the electrodes the solution already looked like a 80ppm (albeit a little more red) solution from this site. Could It be because the gelatin made the already formed 10 ppm IS to clump together making the colloids bigger and causing them to shift in color, to darker and more of a reddish tint?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on December 15, 2017, 03:06:25 PM
Quote
Could It be because the gelatin made the already formed 10 ppm IS to clump together making the colloids bigger and causing them to shift in color, to darker and more of a reddish tint?
No, gelatin will not make the 10 ppm clump or agglomerate.
Gelatin does have the effect of making the solution look darker though.  Lab testing shows that gelatin makes the particle size smaller, about 10nm.  It also greatly slows the reactions, so it takes a lot more time for the color to develop.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Rettan on December 15, 2017, 03:10:23 PM
Ok thank you :)
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Dean on December 16, 2017, 06:29:16 PM
Rettan,

Making up your gelatine ahead of time is not a bad thing in fact Kephra has a recipe for it in the articles but I have to say I haven't done it with IS. Only with 20ppm reduced. The point being, to have the "extra shelf life" for the gelatine solution because it's been made with colloidal silver and not just pre-mixed in distilled water. This is just a time saving routine though for when needing to cap an existing batch of "non-capped" silver. (for instance, some 40ppm karo reduced but then want to take it internally so would THEN cap it with my "stored" bottle of already made up gelatine). It sounds like you have made this as part of your initial production which seems "out of sync" with the usual processes described generally.

Then you have moved on to adding your sodium. I'm not sure this has any value or reduces your process time any.
The point of the sodium is to control the production of your IS and keep it consistent during the "creation" of it.
Remember it is there to raise the PH slightly, provide conductivity and stop the IS from plating to the cathode DURING the electrolysis.
I'm not sure that adding it after you already have your IS will benefit the process or the final product. (Unless I've misunderstood your process)

Regarding heat, I now actively look to keep heat to below 40 c for all but my 320ppm batches (where I let it steadily rise from 30 degrees to a final temp of about 75 - 80 degrees. and ALWAYS allow it to rise steadily from start to finish. This is 2-fold for me. 1, I don't get any significant evaporation right through the entire 5 hours or so of electrolysis and also, there is no significant "shock' going on where I have observed more turbid results when excessive heat is applied right off the bat. (Too much heat seems to allow reduction to happen almost too quickly!)

Also, if you are making 20ppm, you really don't need any heat at all. Once you're IS complete you can add your sugar and leave it be. The reduction will be slower granted but if time is not of the essence then this may yield a better result for you.
Heating will speed things up but you may find that your significant colour change is indicating a bigger particle (That orangey tint you describe)

Be mindful of due process and the tested methods that really do work. Experimenting is essential and power to you for "doing your own thing"
so my only real thoughts to help / contribute to your post are.....

Remember that doing things in a different order may mean that you prevent something else from happening when it should. If you stick to the solid foundation processes here you should always get a good batch.

Also, doing things out of step may end up making it hard to identify any real underlying issues that may be present.
(incorrectly mixed sodium was my nemesis at the start) By doing loads of things differently all at once, you'll find it much harder to trouble shoot.

Hope this helps


Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Rettan on December 17, 2017, 03:16:56 PM
Thank you for your reply. I didn't want to use preformed IS, it was just that I didnt have any distilled or deionized water available, so I used some 10 ppm IS I bought from the store.

I tried to follow the procedure layed out by kephra in his silvertron user manual. And I think i did so, if not for the use of store bought 10 ppm IS.

In the long post I made, I mistakenly might have made it sound like I heated the solution after I put in the gelatin to 85 degrees and then let it come down in temperature again only to add the sodiumcarbonate and syrup, this was just a mistake in writing the chronology. First I added the gelatin at room temperature 10ppm IS. Then when it has soaked in the solution for 5 mins, I turned up the heat to maybe 40 degrees, then when it started to dissolve I added the Sodiumcarbonate and syrup, then continued heating until 85 degrees, then put in the electrodes.


Also, I have read on this forum several times to dilute higher concentration solutions before ingesting. But I have not seen a reason for this? Is it dangerous to drink lets say a litre of 320 ppm colloidal silver in one drink? If it is, then why is it? Could it affect renal function at higher concentrations?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on December 17, 2017, 03:35:05 PM
Quote
Is it dangerous to drink lets say a litre of 320 ppm colloidal silver in one drink?
Yes, its dangerous.
1)  It has never been tested at such huge amounts.  Silver in high dosages can kill off immune cells.  Whatever else that could happen is unknown.

2)  Diluting it also dilutes the stomach acid.

3)  There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to take that much silver at one time.

Your question makes me think I made a mistake by introducing the world to making high ppm Colloidal Silver.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Rettan on December 17, 2017, 03:59:56 PM
Im sorry to hear that, well now I know.

I read in a thread that 1 litre of 20 ppm per day will give about ~3-5 ppm in the blood stream, and that amount will kill off most bacteria. But doesnt the body consist of roughly 60-65 % water? If you want 3-5 ppm in all compartments of the body you will need much more than 1 litre of 20 ppm in a day. For a 80 kg person, thats 50 litres of body water for the Colloidal Silver to mix with.

This is the reason I'm asking about ingesting high ppm Colloidal Silver.

Or should 1 litre of 20 ppm per day be ingested for a prolonged time to induce a steady state where the whole body will have 3-5 ppm after a sufficiant time has elapsed?

Im sorry I have let down your faith in humanity :)

But I am happy that I now have the information to make the decision not to drink 320 ppm Colloidal Silver.

Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Rettan on December 17, 2017, 04:14:34 PM
Sorry again, people should do their own research. I understand.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on December 17, 2017, 04:16:06 PM
You don't need silver in all the water in your body.  A lot of that water is inside healthy cells, and you certainly don't want silver inside healthy cells.  Pathogens spread around your body mostly with blood.  Thats where you need to put the silver.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Dean on December 17, 2017, 04:34:37 PM
Im sorry to hear that, well now I know.

I read in a thread that 1 litre of 20 ppm per day will give about ~3-5 ppm in the blood stream, and that amount will kill off most bacteria. But doesnt the body consist of roughly 60-65 % water? If you want 3-5 ppm in all compartments of the body you will need much more than 1 litre of 20 ppm in a day. For a 80 kg person, thats 50 litres of body water for the colloidal silver to mix with.

This is the reason I'm asking about ingesting high ppm colloidal silver.

Or should 1 litre of 20 ppm per day be ingested for a prolonged time to induce a steady state where the whole body will have 3-5 ppm after a sufficiant time has elapsed?

Im sorry I have let down your faith in humanity :)

But I am happy that I now have the information to make the decision not to drink 320 ppm colloidal silver.

Rettan,

Your'e doing a great job by being here in the first place so don't beat yourself up. Regarding dosing for silver, you're correct, silver needs to reach a concentration in the blood as you describe. Also consider that even with conventional medicine, no doctor prescribes a "massive dose" to get it into your system all in one go.

Silver is no different. Overloading just because you can is a too simplistic. and also remember that your blood is in "all compartments" of your body all the time (and gets round it in about 1 minute!) so building up over a few days is no different to any antibiotic you've ever taken.

Also consider that overloading is not going to "nuke" every pathogen straight away. There is incubation of pathogens to think about as well so a short, high does, will possibly not help you in the way way you are thinking.

The 320ppm is manyfold in it's reasoning but think of it mainly as a time, cost and space saver.
You need so little of it compared to lower ppm. That's it really. As a 70kg human being, you need just over 60ml of it PER DAY! added to a beverage or water or tea or juice. (split this into 4 x 15ml applications and you're done! That's a whole lot easier than drinking a litre of 20ppm or more to get similar doses.

The only time i-I've used 320ppm neat is when cleaning my dogs teeth (because , they lick it off immediately, and 2 I think of it as a strong reaction but more or less as an "external" use.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Bobby on December 18, 2017, 03:27:49 AM
  Having a supply of 320ppm available for emergency is a must.  320ppm Colloidal Silver is great because you can mix it with about anything to make that dose of 20ppm when needed.  It's a must have!
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Rettan on December 29, 2017, 01:23:06 PM
Thank you for your replies!

The reason I am asking is because I have neuroborreliosis, and the antibiotics prescribed does keep down the infection while Im on the medication, but as soon as I stop it comes back. And the antibiotics gives severe side-effects, especially to my kidneys. So I do not want to use them.

This brings me to my next question, does anyone know of any science or personal experience that can tell wether the colloidal silver passes across the blood-brain barrier? Also, since my learnings about high ppm colloidal silver from you guys, Im thinking instead of using something around 4 liters of 10 ppm colloidal silver per day. If we talk just about the amount of colloidal silver (and not the amount of distilled water), is it safe?

My sincere thanks
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on December 29, 2017, 01:31:36 PM
Silver Nanoparticles (and gold) definitely affect the blood brain barrier.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/51438890_Influence_of_Nanoparticles_on_Blood-Brain_Barrier_Permeability_and_Brain_Edema_Formation_in_Rats
Note the huge doses given to the test animals, 30 mg per kg of body weight.  This is a huge dose, so it is understandable that it could cause brain swelling.

Silver nanoparticles have been shown to greatly increase the effectiveness of conventional antibiotics.

4 liters of 10 ppm colloidal silver properly made would supply 40 mg of silver nanoparticles.  Most of us find that half that much is all that is needed.

Why do you make 10 ppm, instead of 20?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Rettan on December 29, 2017, 01:40:17 PM
I could make 20 ppm and then dilute it to 10 ppm yes.

The reason is this paper here:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28994738

I want the concentration to be as low as possible in the kidneys, and since I need less than 10 ppm to kill bacteria, I could just drink more of a lesser concentration. Thanks for the article, I will look it through!

Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on December 29, 2017, 02:09:12 PM
You misunderstand the difference between milligrams and ppm.
PPM is not relevant.  What is relevant is how many milligrams of silver you ingest.
4 liters of 10 ppm contains the exact same milligrams of silver as 2 liters of 20 ppm.  The only difference is in the amount of water.
Its milligrams of silver that does the job, not ppm. 
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Rettan on December 29, 2017, 08:41:13 PM
I know, I meant that i could make 2 liters of 20 ppm (which is 20 mg/liter since 1 liter of water weighs 1000000 mg hence 20 parts per million is 20 mg per 1000000 mg of water) and then dilute it to 4 liters of 10 ppm (which is 10 mg/liter), instead of having a container with 4 liters and make 10 ppm from the start, makes it easier since I dont have a 4 liter container. As i said, the reason I want lower concentration is because I want to minimize the risk for eventual renal problems (there probably is no risk but its just my personal preference to do it this way).

Sorry I dont want to come across as a smartass, but I dont want to come across as a fool either :)
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on December 29, 2017, 08:43:55 PM
Quote
As i said, the reason I want lower concentration is because I want to minimize the risk for eventual renal problems.
You don't have to dilute it to 10 ppm.  Just take half as much of 20 ppm and you will be getting the exact same amount of silver.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Rettan on December 29, 2017, 08:44:23 PM
The article you linked said that the nanoparticles cross the BBB, that is great news. Thanks alot Kephra!
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Rettan on December 29, 2017, 08:50:04 PM
Yes I know. But I want lower concentration in the kidneys, therefore I will try 4 liters per day. Depending on how much of a nuisance it will be I might do 2 liters of 20 ppm instead.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: onandoff on December 30, 2017, 03:38:31 AM
how much washing soda do you start with  when making 320ppm  I know its 1 table spoon into 3 oz of dw  how many drops do you add to start. I am more on vegan side so no gel in my mix
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on December 30, 2017, 11:23:39 AM
No matter what you are making, the amount of electrolyte is always the same..... 1ml per liter of water.  This is about 20 drops per liter.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Dean on December 30, 2017, 01:09:52 PM
how much washing soda do you start with  when making 320ppm  I know its 1 table spoon into 3 oz of dw  how many drops do you add to start. I am more on vegan side so no gel in my mix

Onandoff,

This is one area that messed me up at the start. Accuracy in mixing your electrolyte I found to be quite important. If you can, get hold of a precision scale. They are very inexpensive but allow you to measure with greater accuracy than a volume base.

Do you heap, don’t you heap? It all adds to inconsistency.
If you can lock down some things it’s fairly easy to troubleshoot any problems.

The reason Kephra mentions “about” 20 drops comes down to your dropper or syringe.
If it has a smaller or larger hole it may be 20 drops, it may be 18, it may be 25 but it should always be 1ml per litre. When you get to adding it to your water cell.

As long as you’ve accurately made your solution, and you accurately add 1ml to 1 litre then you’re good to go.
Remember it’s 10.6 grams of anhydrous sodium carbonate made UP to 100ml.
This gives you your 1 molar concentration.

Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: onandoff on December 31, 2017, 04:20:18 AM
Since karo is not vegan I am left to Cinnamon organic   5ml  in vodka  is it a capping agent . What alternative to gelatin .  As a capping agent is there. Any help would be great. Thank you Happy New year.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: cfnisbet on December 31, 2017, 07:15:18 AM
How is Karo not vegan? Am I missing something here?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on December 31, 2017, 12:24:39 PM
How is Karo not vegan? Am I missing something here?
Corn syrup is made from starch, and there are no animal based ingredients in it.  Its as vegan as broccoli :)
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: emanwols on December 31, 2017, 12:26:44 PM
Since karo is not vegan I am left to Cinnamon organic   5ml  in vodka  is it a capping agent . What alternative to gelatin .  As a capping agent is there. Any help would be great. Thank you Happy New year.
I remember reading a post by Kephra or another member that stated the only reliable Gelatin is animal based and that vegetarians or vegans are out of luck when it comes to producing stable 320ppm silver. I have never used vegetarian gelatin but i believe the general consensus is it is not effective for a stable product. It is possible that vegetarian gelatin is good for lower ppm silver--- may be 20-40ppm i am not sure.
Happy new year
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on December 31, 2017, 01:13:09 PM
Since karo is not vegan I am left to Cinnamon organic   5ml  in vodka  is it a capping agent . What alternative to gelatin .  As a capping agent is there. Any help would be great. Thank you Happy New year.
As I told you before; glucose, maltose, corn syrup, maltodextrin, cinnamon extract, and gelatin all cap silver.  Glucose is weakest, and gelatin is the strongest, because it is the largest molecule in the list.

Gelatin has the added advantage in that it resists stomach acids because protein digestion is mainly done in the small intestine.

Gelatin is protein.  Any pure protein should work provided it is water soluble, but no one on this forum has done any testing with any protein except gelatin.  Gelatin is the only pure, water soluble, and commonly available source of protein I have found.  Perhaps you can find another.



Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Rettan on December 31, 2017, 05:06:02 PM
is there a thread which shows examples of turbidity?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on December 31, 2017, 06:08:19 PM
I don't think there is a thread about it, but look at this post:
https://www.cgcsforum.org/index.php?topic=1896.msg16522#msg16522
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Rettan on December 31, 2017, 07:12:15 PM
Thanks for the reply, but it says that that part of the site is off limits or missing for me :(
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on December 31, 2017, 07:32:08 PM
Try this topic:

https://www.cgcsforum.org/index.php?topic=2352.msg22587#msg22587

Also, I suggest this article:
https://www.cgcsforum.org/index.php?topic=3025.0
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Rettan on January 01, 2018, 08:09:56 PM
Thank you! Judging from those pictures the stuff Im making is very good :)

I was wondering about the brownish residue building up on the anode during hot gelatin colloidal silver production. Would that residue trap silver ions that are released from the anode, and wouldnt they "disappear" back to metallic Ag when I burn them with a gasburner (every 20 minutes or so), and therefore take away from the calculation on how much Ag+ is being released into the solution when calculating from how many mA-minutes you are using?

Here are some questions, thanks for your knowledge Kephra :)

Does the brown stuff trap silver ions?

When burned with a gasburner doesnt it take away from the calculation on how much Ag+ has been released into the solution?

At first when burning with a gasburner the brown residue quickly turns a little bluish in color, and then after a few more seconds with the burner it turns whitish. What has happened when it turns bluish? Do you have to make it whitish? Sometimes the blue doesnt become whitish but instead a little flakey. I guess my question is if any of these color states of the anode somehow inhibit good Colloidal Silver production.

Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on January 01, 2018, 08:31:29 PM
Silver ions trapped on the anode do not affect the time calculations since they carry no current to the cathode.
That brown stuff on the electrodes is mostly gelatin.
Colors like an oil slick on water, or bird feathers are caused by interference patterns between layers of the material.  It is not caused by different materials.  When it turns white, it is really silver, but the crystalline nature of the surface makes it appear white.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Rettan on January 01, 2018, 08:35:43 PM
Thats very good, I just noticed a few minutes ago when making a batch, that if I put the gasburner on there for like 40 sec eventually it would all become white. Earlier I have for the most part just burned it until it turns bluish. Does this matter?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on January 01, 2018, 08:49:47 PM
Doesn't really matter, it just means that you did not convert all the oxide back to metal.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Rettan on January 01, 2018, 08:53:29 PM
Great, youre the best Kephra :)
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Rettan on January 04, 2018, 10:39:47 AM
Is there a procedure for using citrate as a capping agent for home use?

The reason Im asking is because alot of the research articles uses it. What are the advantages compared to gelatin?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Dean on January 05, 2018, 08:13:34 AM
I believe the point in question is how "powerful" the capping agent is. When you start getting up to higher PPM's the strength of the capping agent is a factor and as Kephra has said, gelatine is the strongest of these especially when considering the protective reasoning that we use it. (hydrochloric acid through the gut).

And has also been noted, even your "reducing" agents are technically "capping" but at different levels so to speak.

Aaaahhhh The beauty of science!  ;D
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on January 06, 2018, 06:19:29 PM
Is there a procedure for using citrate as a capping agent for home use?

The reason Im asking is because alot of the research articles uses it. What are the advantages compared to gelatin?
You could probably use tri-sodium citrate as the electrolyte.  Make a 0.66M solution and use it like sodium carbonate.
This will have the same amount of sodium as 1M sodium carbonate.

I don't know of any advantages over gelatin.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on January 17, 2018, 12:41:42 PM
Its hydrogen gas.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on January 26, 2018, 01:14:55 PM
Don't trust your pH meter.  To get a pH of 10, you would need 200 times more sodium carbonate which is not possible. Trust your scale.

What is the size of your anode, the diameter of your cathode, and the spacing between your electrodes?


Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on January 26, 2018, 01:25:22 PM
Use a smaller diameter cathode, like 12 or 14 gauge copper house wiring.
Also, you don't have to submerge the full anode.
But its normal to have only a small amount of cathode submerged.
Title: Re: 320 ppm process
Post by: kephra on February 23, 2018, 11:58:37 AM
hi, I produced my first batch of 320ppm colloidal silver  8) .I  have 4 questions.

1. shall I compensate the loss of water due to condensation from time to time in the process?
Yes, but if your Colloidal Silver is covered while hot you should not lose too much water.  I top mine off at the end.
Quote
2. I don't see any residue on the bottom, do I need to filter it anyway?
Not if you don't want to.
Quote
3.after I dilute, should the solution be tasteless?
It should not taste metallic.  I can't taste anything in mine.
Quote
4. when I dilute 1 tablespoon(15ml) of 320ppm  in 250ml to obtain a 20ppm solution, can I use any water or I must dilute only in DW? ::)
No, you can use any drinkable water to dilute with the exception of heavily chlorinated water.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Dean on February 24, 2018, 05:39:10 PM
Alex,

When I make 320 I start electrolysis at about 30 degrees C. Then I allow it to steadily rise getting to between 75 - 80 degrees ONLY BY THE END OF THE RUN!.

I make 1 litre batches always so i'm in for about 5 hrs. 20 minutes at 15ma.
The expansion as it starts to heat sees volume increase beyond the 1 litre mark and I have full coverage of the 1 litre beaker with a lid (breather hole in the centre only.)

I have NEVER ended up with less than 1 litre by the end! try gentle increasing of heat rather than wacking the cell straight in at high temp. It really doesn't need it. As long you are above the solubility limit and you're reducing and electrolyte is accurate you should sail through the batch.

It never tastes metallic.

I do filter but in truth, if you are diligent and careful with anode / cathode cleaning during the run, you shouldn't get any residue.

As Kephra says, any drinkable water AFTER production is fine. I put it in tea, coffee, orange juice, distilled water, filtered water..........

Well done on the run!
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Neofizz on February 26, 2018, 05:23:02 PM
A while back I was with a friend talking about the 320 ppm colloidal silver while we were diluting it into our drinks. I had lemonade with some lemon slices lurking around the bottom of the glass. Around the lemon slices where the acid levels would be greatest the colloidal sliver solution (diluted to 20 ppm) started to turn red on me.

So, even though the 320 ppm could be diluted into almost anything, I learned that day to not use something that is too extremely acidic like strong lemon juice.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: emanwols on February 27, 2018, 12:53:58 PM
Hello Neofizz
i do not understand why if gelatin capped colloidal silver can or should withstand stomach acids it cannot withstand lemon juice for a few minutes.
Also i would like the views from all forum members as to why they think my 320ppm colloidal silver has a  slighlty bitter taste  when i use it neat( without dilution) as a mouthwash just for gargling after brushing. I must add that i brew all my Colloidal Silver with what used to be 7 guage silver rods at 48mA and i do not have any debris on the bottom of my flasks when production is done.
Thanks
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on February 27, 2018, 01:26:53 PM
Gelatin holds particles in suspension.  So you might be making a lot of silver oxide particles and not seeing it because of the gelatin holding it in suspension.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Neofizz on February 28, 2018, 01:16:26 AM
Hello Neofizz
i do not understand why if gelatin capped colloidal silver can or should withstand stomach acids it cannot withstand lemon juice for a few minutes.

This took more than a few minutes to happen. It was a large glass and took the better part of an hour to consume. It was about at the half hour point that I noticed the colour change occurring at the sliced areas of the lemon wedges at the bottom of the glass. I was considering with the lemon wedges being where the acid strength would be greatest, that it was the cause of the colour change I was seeing. This is just my observation.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: emanwols on February 28, 2018, 01:32:38 AM
Gelatin holds particles in suspension.  So you might be making a lot of silver oxide particles and not seeing it because of the gelatin holding it in suspension.
When i dilute the 320ppm Colloidal Silver just to check for turbidity and colour everything seems fine. but since i do not drink it do you think that it is still effective as a mouthwash even with the silver oxide particles?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: emanwols on February 28, 2018, 01:36:32 AM
Hello Neofizz
i do not understand why if gelatin capped colloidal silver can or should withstand stomach acids it cannot withstand lemon juice for a few minutes.

This took more than a few minutes to happen. It was a large glass and took the better part of an hour to consume. It was about at the half hour point that I noticed the colour change occurring at the sliced areas of the lemon wedges at the bottom of the glass. I was considering with the lemon wedges being where the acid strength would be greatest, that it was the cause of the colour change I was seeing. This is just my observation.
Fair enough. I assume that our Colloidal Silver will make it out of the stomach into intestines long before acids affect it
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on February 28, 2018, 01:42:54 AM
Quote
do you think that it is still effective as a mouthwash even with the silver oxide particles
Yes.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Dean on March 05, 2018, 06:56:14 PM
Alex,

I would only add the silver to a drink when needed. Keep it in it's own vessel until you need it.
If you make a lid, make sure you use something that will not leach anything into the cell during production.

The lid that Kephra provides with the Silverton is made from antibacterial food cutting board (you know the white ones).

I made one from a sugar jar lid that was made from wood at the beginning because it fitted my 1 litre beaker.
It used to sweat which brought contamination into the cell as it dripped in over time.

So whatever you do, use something like the food board and cut to size and accurately drill to 1. 5" (38mm) centres for your electrodes.

Good Luck!

Title: 40 ppm turbidity problem
Post by: Argentum on March 16, 2018, 02:32:56 PM
I've run into the same issue when adding the reducing agent while it is cooking. Then tried it with both the reducing agent and the capping agent, not really much better.

What I do now is to heat the distilled water in a 900 W microwave for 3.33 minutes, add just the electrolyte, top off the cell w/DW and start the process. I have also made a insulating wrap for the cell as I don't use a hot plate. But there is a stirrer.

Once the time is up (5 ma, .95 l, 1 ml electrolyte, 2 hours run time), the Colloidal Silver is a light yellow in color. I place the capping agent (liquid gelatin), and the reducing agent (karo) into an empty distilled water jug. Reheat the cell in the microwave for 1.11 minutes. Then pour it into the jug, cap and shake. Leave sit until cool.

Then bottle it. By the next morning it is a light amber color and clear.

Argentum
Title: Re: 40 ppm turbidity problem
Post by: Dean on March 16, 2018, 11:23:52 PM
hi, after making a lot of 20ppm and also 320 ppm with success, today I mess up something with my first 40ppm process.
I heated 2L of DW 001ppm  to 50degres C  then put 36 drops electrolyte (18 drops is 1ml for my dropper)and 20 drops 50/50 reducing agent.current was 10mA.started the process and the water temp rise slowly with the process until 70 degrees C.cleaned up the electrodes every 30 min.something strange was when I pull out the electrodes for cleaning with the torch I saw something  like greenish moisture on the anode .from what I've read,  a lot of people here don't heat so much,  maybe 50 degrees is enough?what do you think, where I've mess up things? :o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhW6ku9BFDM&feature=youtu.be

Alex,

The batches I make are 40 and 320 pretty much exclusively and always 1 litre volume.

For 40ppm try 1 litre first and see how you get on with this process:

1. Room temp DW (1litre about 20 - 22 degrees C)
2. Start heat and spin (heat dial at about 12 o'clock only or the point at which you are getting heat in).
3. Add your 1ml Electrolyte (for 1 litre volume)
4. Add your karo
5. let the temp get up to about 30 degrees
6. Start your cell - I run at 10ma with a bullion
7. Keep an eye on the temperature but don't go above 40 C. (You really don't need to).
8. Finish the cell
9. Turn off the heat - Leave it spinning for a few minutes.
10. See how it looks.

Alternatively
Follow the above but use / try 0.6g of maltodextrin as your reducer.
I get the cleanest most consistent batches ever using malto. (tried this after reading some of Wayne's posts).


for both my preferred batches (40 and 320) I start the cell at 30c and let them rise for the duration of the runs. I keep the 40ppm to 40c max (and only 40c by the end of the 1 hour run time)

The 320 I start at 30c and let it slowly rise to about 75c by the end of the 5 1/2 hour run (15ma with a bullion)

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Dean on March 20, 2018, 08:54:08 PM
Alex,

A few things to check...

1. Have you recently cleaned your beaker with peroxide?
I had a 40ppm batch go completely opaque within about 10 minutes once.
I had just cleaned my beaker with hydrogen peroxide so thoroughly, thoroughly cleaned it again and it went perfect the second time round.

2. Are you using fresh electrolyte / accurately mixed?
Sometimes just going back to basics is enough to alter the chemistry.

3. Are anode and cathode fire cleaned before the run starts?
Just to rule out any contamination “pre-run”
4. Is your Karo fresh ( can attract mould if diluted and not used up fairly quickly.)

Just a few checks to eliminate the most common causes of what I’ve found to affect clarity.

Lastly, you’re still taking the temperature higher than I would go. I start the cell at 30c and let it rise to 40c by the end.

Have a go at that and see what happens.

Hope this helps.


Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Argentum on March 21, 2018, 12:39:58 AM
I've never been able to get non-turbid 40 PPM when adding a reducer or reducer and capping agent at the beginning. I wait until the electrolysis is done then add the reducer and capping agent to a plastic jug and pour in the Colloidal Silver to fully reduce and cap it.

The other thing, are you keeping the cell voltage above 10 volts?

Interesting phenomenon with what looks like smoke coming off the anode.

Argentum
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Art on March 21, 2018, 04:44:26 AM
I've only seen smoke like that coming off of a silver bar anode when not using a stirrer and running at high current. It formed a small pile of gray to black particles directly under the anode. It looks like the current may be higher than what your meter is showing.

Art
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on March 21, 2018, 01:33:12 PM
Do you also have a voltmeter connected?  Voltage can change during a run, and is very important.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Dean on March 21, 2018, 09:59:35 PM
DEAN,

IT WORK AT 40 DEGREES CELSIUS.NO TURBIDITY.STILL WONDERING HOW OTHERS SUCCEED AT HIGHER TEMP.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SujxWyIyVyk

THANKS  ;)
Awesome result Alex! So happy for you! Don't be so worried about how others do it. At the end of the day it's the result that matters and I'll tell you right now, that's an awesome result! It's the guidelines you get from the forum. That's what empowers you. You're own skill and judgement then comes into play.

I couldn't get washing soda to mix clear no matter what I tried, even though others use it exclusively. Results for all to see on my gallery. It looked like milk every time. In the end I gave up and now just exclusively convert regular bicarbonate of soda which has never failed to work so that's now "my way" of doing it. Well done!! Awesome job!
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Neofizz on March 22, 2018, 06:55:50 PM
That batch in the video looks perfect Alex, with no discernible turbidity. You are right and temperature has something to do with it. Speed of reduction is temperature dependent. And reducing too fast can cause turbidity. Only run your temperature as high as you need to for solubility purposes. When I do 20 ppm I don't use heat at all now.

Different reducers go at different speeds as well. Glucose is fast. Maltodextrin is slower. And Maltose is even slower. I use Maltodextrin unless I'm making a 320 ppm batch.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: peri1224 on April 27, 2018, 01:55:16 AM
I had a supply of 320 ppm gelatin coated Colloidal Silver most of the time, except recently ran out. Then had to make a batch in a hurry. It didn't look as dark as usual but thought nothing of it. The taste seems to be slightly burnt. Then realized this morning that I forgot to put the glucose. I added only gelatin and the electrolyte. Stupid me.
The color looks fairly ok, but I wonder now what I have. Is it of any use?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on April 27, 2018, 02:32:41 AM
You have mostly ionic silver.  Add the reducing agent, and heat it up for a while, you might be able to save it.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: cfnisbet on April 27, 2018, 09:21:01 AM
That batch in the video looks perfect Alex, with no discernible turbidity. You are right and temperature has something to do with it. Speed of reduction is temperature dependent. And reducing too fast can cause turbidity. Only run your temperature as high as you need to for solubility purposes. When I do 20 ppm I don't use heat at all now.

Different reducers go at different speeds as well. Glucose is fast. Maltodextrin is slower. And Maltose is even slower. I use Maltodextrin unless I'm making a 320 ppm batch.
For a long time, I have been suspicious of the speed of reaction (reduction) being the cause of turbidity. The only times I have ever seen a turbid result has been glucose reduction, particularly if there was not enough electrolyte. Slow reduction seems to be a very good idea, unless everything else is perfect.

I agree with not using heat if I am stirring the product mechanically, but I feel that it is essential to stir the bulk fluid somehow.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Neofizz on April 29, 2018, 02:47:45 AM
As Kephra has before stated, it's all a balancing act. We go in the opposite direction when making the 320 ppm colloidal silver, and it still comes out free of turbidity when diluted down to 20 ppm. I have made enough 20 ppm batches with heat and no turbidity as well, and using glucose. But my batches that showed the least Tyndall line were the 20 ppm's run at room temperature with constant stirring, and using maltodextrin to reduce. YMMV

This does sort of get into hair splitting territory so keep that in mind as well.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: wkp80 on January 17, 2019, 07:10:11 PM
Hi all can anyone point me in the right direction where i can find the diagram for making a constant current regulator that is on this site. I have made one of these before and used it for several years with success. I now want to make one for my friend. Also i can't get onto the store site it is saying forbidden. I have also purchased a silvertron  last year and want another one for a family member.Any help will be appreciated.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: cfnisbet on January 17, 2019, 07:40:49 PM
Hi all can anyone point me in the right direction where i can find the diagram for making a constant current regulator that is on this site. I have made one of these before and used it for several years with success. I now want to make one for my friend. Also i can't get onto the store site it is saying forbidden. I have also purchased a silvertron  last year and want another one for a family member.Any help will be appreciated.
We don't post circuit diagrams any more. I suggest you PM Kephra if you can't get into the SilverTron store. Otherwise, it would have to be a Bench PSU from eBay or Amazon.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Dean on January 17, 2019, 09:28:29 PM
cfnisbet

I have passed links and info to wkp80 via the facebook page. Have explained the situation. re country restrictions.
Hopefully Kephra will pick up and provide up to date position on accessibility.

(I just posted in experts as well regarding this but as it's now picked up here, please ignore that post.)

Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: wkp80 on January 18, 2019, 11:03:58 AM
Thanks for your help on this issue
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: muhendisane on June 05, 2019, 02:15:16 PM
I'm preparing for producing the kephra's method.

1- I bought corn syrup yesterday, color is transparent, it has no yellow color, is that mean its light syrup that kephra using and is this the best form of syrup?

2- i need assistant about my silver wire shape and calculating surface area. The submerged area is about 13cm, width is 2,95mm on top and 2,65mm on the bottom (i've used it before for my ex formula) avarage diameter is 2,8mm, i thought i need do the calculation based on the average 2,8mm diameter, is that ok? It's also weighs 11,54 grams.

3- My silver wire has rectangle shaped not rounded, Do i have to multiply the surface area by four? For ex. 13cmx0,28cm=3,64cm² this is surface area for the one side of the wire, it has 4 sides, do i have to multiply by four?

4- I can set the electrode spacing minimum 43mm because of my electrode fixture. Based on my electrode sizes, what is the best electrode voltage for this? I know from article nr. 3, for wider electrode spacing, you need higher voltage. I know 10-12 volts good for 37mm spacing.

5- @cfnisbet says on blog "1 ma per square centimetre of submerged anode area for the suggested current when processing DW hot.
10 ma per square inch of submerged anode area when processing DW hot.
2 or 3 ma per sq inch of anode area when processing cold."

I will do the process cold, after it finished will heat it to the 60°c than will add the RA. In this case what is the current i need with my square wire?

Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: cfnisbet on June 05, 2019, 03:35:51 PM
I would suggest 3-5 mA for all wires or similar-sized anodes.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on June 05, 2019, 06:00:46 PM
Don't bother trying to calculate a current.  Here is the only thing that matters.
If you see brown smoke like clouds coming off the positive electrode, your current is too high, reduce it until you don't notice the smoke.  Use as large of an anode as possible unless you have a magnetic stirrer.

Karo comes in three varieties, "Light", "Dark", and "Lite".  Do not use "Lite".

Electrode voltage should be 3.5 + .175*mm where mm = electrode spacing in millimeters.
So for 43mm spacing, minimum voltage should be 11 volts.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: muhendisane on June 06, 2019, 03:04:13 PM
@kephra to learn and clarify the exact amounts instead of aprroximate drop amounts of electrolyte solution, I measure the weight of the electrolyte drops for full of tea spoon as you say. I count 35 drops from my dropper bottle to fill the tea spoon. Divided this by five = 7 drops for 1 liter. Also total amount of 35 drops, weighs 1.33 grams.

I buy washing soda from grocery store, measure the weight of the soda 12.40grams in 100ml beker and i added require amount of DW to fill it to the 100ml level.   

You all can see drop count weight in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwProqwnu6E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwProqwnu6E)
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on June 06, 2019, 05:43:15 PM
Well there is something wrong with your measurement.  For a 1 liter batch, you should use 1 ml of 1 molar sodium carbonate.  1 ml weighs about 1 gram.  Your teaspoon showed a weight of 1.3 grams when full.

A standard teaspoon holds 5 ml, so should weigh 5 grams of water.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: muhendisane on June 06, 2019, 09:42:27 PM
@kephra, yes you're right. I think my teaspoon is smaller one. I'm not living in the us. I measured it again. 1ml of DW weighs exactly 1.00 grams, and 1ml of Electrolyte weighs exact 1.10 grams. And with my dropper bottle 25 drops weighs 1.10 grams. So if i put 25 drops electrolyte from my dropper bottle to the 1 liter batch, i am putting 1ml of electrolyte.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on June 06, 2019, 09:46:47 PM
Glad I could help :)
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: muhendisane on June 07, 2019, 04:02:56 PM
Glad I could help :)

Glad i found you and this forum. Thanks for everything.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: muhendisane on June 08, 2019, 10:53:01 AM
Does the Sodium Chloride has to be chemically pure and food grade? Or just any washing soda without extra detergent additives would be fine?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on June 08, 2019, 12:22:54 PM
I think you are cnfusing sodium carbonate with sodium chloride.
Sodium chloride has no place in making colloidal silver.
Sodium carbonate should have no extra ingredients.
You can make sodium carbonate from baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) by baking it, but only use 1.6 10.6 grams of the powder to make 100ml of electroyte.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: muhendisane on June 08, 2019, 04:37:00 PM
Sorry, i mean sodium carbonate. I did misspelling.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on June 08, 2019, 04:46:36 PM
OOPS,  I said 1.6 grams which should have been 10.6 grams.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: muhendisane on June 08, 2019, 04:50:32 PM
I think we're not at our best today  :)
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: muhendisane on June 08, 2019, 05:30:49 PM
Are these oxygen or hydrogen bubbles coming off the cathode and thats mean too much current or just silver positive / negative ions interchange between electrodes (i don't remember the technical name right now)?

https://youtu.be/7g8WBBVSTMY (https://youtu.be/7g8WBBVSTMY)
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on June 08, 2019, 06:10:45 PM
Are these oxygen or hydrogen bubbles coming off the cathode and thats mean too much current or just silver positive / negative ions interchange between electrodes (i don't remember the technical name right now)?

https://youtu.be/7g8WBBVSTMY (https://youtu.be/7g8WBBVSTMY)

No, thats not what it means.  The bubbles from the cathode are hydrogen gas from sodium metal reacting with water.

Ionic sodium is reduced on the cathode creating metallic sodium.  Metallic sodium reacts violently with water producing hydrogen an sodium hydroxide.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Turbidaceous on February 08, 2020, 09:24:11 PM
Hi.

I am trying to figure out the best, cheapest setup I can do. I bought from America a cheap system which is essentially instructions and a couple crocodile leads with a 10k resistor fitted inline with the positive lead. Instructions say clip three 9v batteries in series and connect the negative to the stainless steel bowl and the positive to the silver which you dangle into the bowl but ensuring it is suspended and not touching the bowl. Great, I have that down. But all it does is make clear ionic it seems with perhaps some colloidal. I have added some Golden Syrup as suggested here and elsewhere and it is still clear. Slightly hazy but relatively clear with no discernable colour. I have ordered some Sodium Carbonate which I should receive tomorrow. My hope is in the meantime that adding some of this to my first batch will make the colour go yellow. I already saw it go yellow after failed attempts to get the ph higher with other things and when I dumped it in a waste glass of water and who knows what else POOF it went yellow, so my hope is I should get yellow when I add some Sodium Carbonate?!

But, is there a better cheaper or faster system to more accurately make it? Currently I am taking their 1-1.5 gallon at 48 hours and calculating down for my lower volume 2L steel bowl, so it's taking about 21 hours when full or about 13 hours if I am making 1.25L

If you have any info on the basics of a better setup which is faster but yields good quality genuine colloidal silver, I would be very interested. I keep seeing people soldering something-something-ometers and altering things and I just get lost. People say fast is bad, slower and more time consuming yields better but then I saw something here which made it seem fast. My head just spins with all the seemingly conflicting information all over the web. Any clarification would be helpful. Thanks.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: chrisflhtc on February 09, 2020, 06:18:40 PM
Did you read all the articles?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Turbidaceous on February 09, 2020, 06:58:49 PM
Yes and I am experimenting. I am trying to use what I have rather than going all-new.

So my adding sodium carbonate worked within a few minutes to turn my non-electrolyte version yellow in a few minutes, maybe half an hour perhaps. But I have now made 2 batches based on the articles where I calculate the carbonate and add that based on the amount of liquid. It was MUCH faster, though after adding my dilute golden syrup, it has barely changed the colour after 1 hour. The one thing I have not found is how long it takes to cold-reduce Colloidal Silver done with syrup reducer. Is it normal that it takes a while? The first batch converted over relatively quickly.

My thought is maybe my first one, not using any sodium carbonate produced a different more pure molecule which is quicker to reduce, where the electrolyte version had some other form of silver perhaps which adds extra processing time to fully reduce? Is my assumption correct? Can you add anything on how long a cold reduction of Colloidal Silver-S takes to reduce?

Thanks
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Gene on February 10, 2020, 07:20:22 AM
If you want to make real Colloidal Silver and know what PPM you made, you NEED a current limiter. 27V and a resistor is not going to do it.  Without constant current (which you won't get), you have no clue what you made.

Read the articles and follow what they say.  These are time tested, true procedures for doing it properly. There is no "cutting any corner" here.

Also too, the current you need to use is rather small.  For silver wire, 5-10ma tops. For a silver bullion bar, 15-20ma and as I said, it must be constant current. This is the only way Faraday's law of electrolysis works. There is no other way to determine the PPM of your result.  There is no meter you can buy to measure it. Constant current and proper cell voltage and time based on Faraday's law of electrolysis is the only way to do it properly.

All reducers require you heat the IS solution to maybe 120F+ degrees. They reduce extremely slowly if even at all at room temp.  Even at 120F they can take a while.

The purpose of the sodium carbonate is to reduce the resistance of the water so you can get reasonably good current through the cell. It has a couple other purposes. Your cell is an electroplating cell. Without the sodium carbonate electrolyte, the silver ions you draw off the anode into the water would immediately plate-out on the cathode. This would render IS production worthless as you wouldn't make any. The electrolyte interferes with the silver plating out on the cathode where now you can build up the PPM in solution so when you reduce you actually get a reasonable PPM. The sodium carbonate also raises the PH of the solution to around 8-8.5PH (alkaline).  Reducers are sugars (glucose, maltodextrin,...) and they only work and reduce in an alkaline environment.

You really need to reread the articles and study them and BELIEVE what they say. If you don't follow the procedure properly, there's no clue what you made and no way to measure it.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Turbidaceous on February 10, 2020, 02:50:16 PM
I have just ordered a 30v 500mAh mains power supply, a 1M ohm Potentiometer and a pair of crocodile clips. I am going to try to rig up a constant current.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Turbidaceous on February 10, 2020, 06:37:51 PM
I think the one thing which still fully escapes me, is I have seen people here say adding some things to their Colloidal Silver (salt?) makes it go clear and back to ionic. Does that mean you can make the best actual colloidal silver, but when you take it, your body or the things in your stomach convert it back away from beiung colloidal into being ionic?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: cfnisbet on February 10, 2020, 09:02:05 PM
No, that's why we use capping agents. These prevent, wholly or partially, the Colloidal Silver particles from being turned back into ionic silver. Cinnamon tincture seems to be adequate, gelatin seems to be excellent. That's why we recommend them.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Turbidaceous on February 11, 2020, 02:34:28 AM
Interesting. At first when I saw mentioning of capping, I thought people were talking about putting colloidal silver in capsules, because any time I ever heard capping that is what was meant. Is the "capping" agent needed due to the production method of the colloidal silver? Or is it a necesarry step for any and all colloidal silver made via any method at all?

Edit: I saw on one of the articles talking about adding 0.5ml of cinnamon tincture to the water during creation. If you make higher ppm do you have to add more than 0.5ml of cinnamon, such as 40ppm needing 1ml? It was not very clear to me if a 0.5ml of it should be used for a certain amount of water in the batch either.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Turbidaceous on February 12, 2020, 05:54:03 PM
I had a feeling the 1mega ohm potentiometer would be too strong. It was not granular enough, it went from no resistance when I tested it on my multimeter to like 20,000 ohm with the faintest whiff of movement on the dial. So I have ordered 100k ohm ones. I got my £11 30v 500mAh power supply. I stripped the wires, attached to crocodile leads and in trhe interrim until I get the new potentiometers I connected my existing 10k ohm in-line lead from my existing kit. I get a constant 2.77ma current. I am almost done making a 1.5L batch and then I shall filter and reduce it. This will be my first batch using non-battery power, constant current source.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Turbidaceous on February 12, 2020, 06:55:22 PM
Okay. I added 4 drops of dilute golden syrup. Less than I had been using initially with my first colloidal silver attempts. This batch using 2.77 constant current, is slightly lighter in colour (consistent with an example image I have seen on here with an A and B about how much reducer to add) but it is not quite as crystal clear as ones I have made. Yes, it is clear and I can see through it perfectly but it has a faint but present haze which only one of my other batches had. I am not sure what causes the tiny bit of haze but it looks like images I have seen on here of good reduced colloidal silver. So I am very satisfied.

One of my first batches on the left, latest one with the constant current above (I used the formula in Excel to calculate the right time to make it.
(https://i.imgur.com/QnrQJu0.jpg)

EDIT

What is a good but easy to achieve way of securing a 1 gram bullion bar for use in making colloidal silver so that stirers or fans won't blow the electrodes about and accidentally make them contact each other directly?

EDIT

By the way, my 30v 500mAh wall-wart power supply is working out great. I have connected a 100k Potentiometer (I shall switch it out in time for a 50k to have better sensitivity) and I have been able to dial in 4ma current in the water with my multi-meter in line. Then once satisfied I remove the multimeter and connect the leads together instead (just to remove the meter from the circuit) and I have successfully made a test 250ml batch in 18.8 minutes and then I microwaved it in a clean and dry coffee mug for about 2:30 with 1 drop of dilute golden syrup and some stiring. What a nice thing. It's a bit of work to set everything up but this simple system seems to be working great. In time I plan on buying a magnetic stirrer and setting up a classic 2 electrode in a top-down system as most people use. But for now, this is working great for me.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Turbidaceous on February 18, 2020, 02:09:51 PM
Turns out this is not constant current. I thought a mains powered power supply was constant current, compared to batteries which drain. I was wrong. I am ready to give up on constant current because I cannot find ANYWHERE the right clear, simple instructions on what you need to buy, how you use it and why it works. I hear about LM something or other and 2 transistor setups. It just confounds my brain and I do not understand any of it. I get potentiometers to drop the ma to the 3ma I want. I would really appreciate some information so that I can progress with my setup to make it perfect because I am close to giving up on it 😫
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Turbidaceous on February 22, 2020, 03:48:52 PM
Regarding smoke. I can often detect wisps coming out when I shine a light through it at the right angle. But with just my eye without the light I see nothing. Does that classify as bad smoke? Even if you have to use a light to see it?

I made a batch earlier and it was perfect, even with a light I could not see any trace of anything. I fire cleaned the silver, did the same thing and this time I saw a bit of whispy strands of thin smoke coming out when I shine a flashlight on it. Now, I use a USB desk fan to blow on the water to create a bit of movement (until I can afford to buy this, which I have in my cart: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/79-1-1000ml-Hot-Plate-Magnetic-Stirrer-Lab-Heating-Dual-Control-Mixer-220V/143327380133  )so is the fan angle possibly the culprit of why last batch was the first perfect ever but this time I am seeing the usual thin strands coming off the silver?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: cfnisbet on February 25, 2020, 07:17:17 PM
What you can see as "smoke" is often tiny bubbles, or silver oxide in the process of dissolving. If the end result is clear and not turbid, then it's fine.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Turbidaceous on February 25, 2020, 07:29:13 PM
It is usually fine. I only had issues without using the fan and using higher current. I saw the cathode geometry post and calculated my rough area and I should stick to 3ma (as I do now). But with a 1oz I should be able to do 10ma accommodating for how much I leave as a safety margin to connect the crocodile lead. But I may experiment with the 10g bullion coupling idea next time. I just have to borrow a drill because I do not own one myself. I have a junior hacksaw, so I would have to be very careful to clean the silver before using it as an anode... but I think it should work well based on your info about heating it. I will give it a quick diamond filing though to remove the fingerprint and any traces of things on the surface before I use it again though.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Patnuck on March 08, 2020, 01:01:55 AM
I think I have a problem with my process.  I am using 27 volt battery power with home made constant current setup, using 2 transistors and resistors, with 999.99 Canadian Maple Coin and 12 gauge copper wire as the electrodes. I use a magnetic stirrer and run at 15ma with sodium carbonate electrolyte. After production I reduce with dilute corn syrup and the finished product looks perfect, nice straw color and clear as a bell. The problem I refer to is that if I shine a laser beam through I see the Tyndall effect although it is very sharp and defined. Is this normal or am I doing something wrong?  Thanks
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Turbidaceous on March 08, 2020, 01:41:09 AM
Does it spread out and light up the whole jar? If so, that is bad. The more I make it, the better I get. My last four 1L batches have turned out perfect. Crystal clear, perfect yellow colour, no turbidity, no opalescence or "sheen" in the light and the Tyndall effect is quite faint and contained to the beam with no big sparkles or anything just a very faint haze beam. Even with a laser. I'd call that perfect. So if your Tyndall is faint and constrained only to the light source's natural beam, it is probably ok. But if it lights up like a christmas tree or a searchlight through the fog, then it's bad.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Patnuck on March 08, 2020, 02:22:28 AM
Thanks for the reply, no it does not light up like a Christmas tree it seems to be contained within the beam. I might add that the laser is from a a temperature reader and is quit strong. I have another laser pointer than is not as strong and doesn't show up at all when shone through. From your answer I think I'm concerned unnecessarily, thanks.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: PhiPhi on March 19, 2020, 12:57:58 PM
I just finished my first 250ml batch,

Electrolyte: 5 drops of Sodium carbonate (anhydrous) I mixed 1 level tea spoon to 60ml (2.11 Oz) DW
Anode: 1 Ozt Silver Maple 80% submerged
Cathode: Thin copper wire approx 1mm diameter submerged 5mm
Electrodes: spacing 38mm (1.5 inches)
Power: 3 PP9 27v Batteries with potentiometer inline from + to anode
Medium: 250ml Medical grade DW
Reducer: 5 drops Karo diluted 1:1 DW

The first 5 mins were a bit of a learning curve trying to get the voltage down from 16v-14.6v to around 13.5 volts
Then 15 minutes at a steady 13.4 volts but the current was around 21ma (but not sure if I was using the multimeter correctly)
The coin blackened somewhat and the anode fizzed with tiny bubbles, I saw no 'smoke' coming off the coin.
Added reducer and 900 watt microwaved for 60 sec, stirred and repeated 30 sec 3 times, throughout this stage the solution went from clear to yellow.

I can see the Tyndall effect strongly with the lights out and a few sparklers, in low light it's feint and in bright light non existent, the laser source is a laser measure with a strong thick beam.  Anyone care to speculate if I can use this even just as mouth wash or disinfectant?



Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Smoke7 on March 24, 2020, 01:22:13 AM
Hello all.
Can someone identify/advice about what went wrong or why I’ve got discoloration on my colloidal silver?
The generator I used I made myself. I used 30V 1A DC power supply with reverse polarity board which is reversing every 30 second +/- I used 10 drops of Silverlight I made last year by backed backing soda, and I just made a new reducing agent right before start creating the silver.  The first batch went very well, however this one not so much. Another thing is when I added reducing agent and start heating up (I used the pot with boiling water and put a beaker on top) It took about 15-20 minutes to turn perfectly amber/golden color (I used 8 drops of (Karo 50/50%) reducing agent  for 2000ml). After that I let it cool down and put it inside the cardboard box overnight.  The next morning the beaker was covered in silver (I should have taken a picture before I washed the beaker) and the silver turned into a milky color.
P.S I ran the generator for about 4 hours with ¼ silver rods and magnetic steering on very slow speed. I have no Idea how much PPM is in it but TDS-3 was showing 34PPM after completion and only 15PPM next day. It looks like the whole silver was left on the bottom and on the sides of the beaker. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Thank you
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: cfnisbet on March 24, 2020, 07:58:10 AM
Looks like it was generated at a current which was too high and with reduction which was too fast. The particles are too big.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: chrisflhtc on March 24, 2020, 01:05:32 PM
If you reversed polarity you made a copper colloid
ICK   Don't do that.
Sorry I thought were using a copper cathode NvrMnd
Chris
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Smoke7 on March 25, 2020, 04:11:27 AM
Thank you for all help and replies. I rebuild my generator and added Adjustable Step Down Buck Converter I took from my Arduino project.
I also rad some recommendation on this site and throw away reverse polarity board (as you suggested) and will continue to read on this site (it just soooo many advice's and confusion with this project) but I am not giving up so easy :) I will try another batch and will post here my result. I still have one question I couldn't find answer yet!!! If I am using 2L beaker with 2L distill water do I have to increase elecrtolight  and reducing agent? Or if somebody will be so nice and just post here how many drops electrolight and reducing agent for 2L will greatly appreciated.    Oh one more thing is it still 60min for 2L or should I shoot for more time to get 20PPM

Thank you all.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: PhiPhi on March 25, 2020, 09:19:23 AM
Smoke7  I'm still trying to work all this out myself but I would save your distilled water by making smaller 250ml batches first, when you have succeeded go 500ml and work up to bigger quantities.  Also do you have an accurate multi-meter that can monitor the current as a consistent current seems to be the key to quality?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Smoke7 on March 25, 2020, 04:59:56 PM
Thank you for advice.
My main multi-miter is FLUKE and all my other multi-miters I calibrated so they are very close to 99% accurate. :)
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Smoke7 on March 25, 2020, 10:32:42 PM
Well, I couldn’t wait any longer and made a new batch today, and it looks very nice and is golden clear.
Here is what I did. 1L DW, 10 drops of electrolyte and 13V across the silver rods 1.5” space between the rods (stirring on very low speed). Ran it for an hour and it had a nice good laser beam through the batch.
I warmed it up in microwave for 60sec. a couple of times and then put it on top of the pot with boiling water. Once it reached 140F, let it cool down for around 1-2 hours. And here is the result.
Thank you all for your help. I am aiming for 100PPM but will have to do more reading :)
P.S. It looks little bit darker on the picture than in reality

Forgot to mention I added 4 drops of the reduced agent.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Smoke7 on March 25, 2020, 10:47:30 PM
Thanks for reply.
Damn, I was so happy with result.
So what steps should I take to eliminate that problem?
What did I do wrong?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Smoke7 on March 26, 2020, 12:28:50 AM
Thank you.
I have two 1/8" silver roads and was using DC buck converter to drop down voltage to 13V and was running for 1 hour sharp.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Smoke7 on March 26, 2020, 12:41:42 AM
Thanks again.
I will monitor current with new batch I am going to make. I wasn't monitoring this time. :-[ Can I still use this silver or throw it away?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Smoke7 on March 26, 2020, 08:08:23 PM
I am going crazy, frustrated, and I just can’t figure out what I am doing wrong. Per your suggestion I dropped down current to 5ma and voltage was around 8-9V and I still start seeing the laser beam in about 30min. What the heck is wrong with me and what am I doing wrong. My setup 1/8" .999 silver roads 24V power supply (not just adapter) BUCK converter and magnetic stirring. I added 20drop of electrolyte (as on instruction) and was going to run for 60min on 1L of distilled water. I used the Instruction below.

Starting with 1 liter of water, add 20 drops of sodium carbonate solution
Time required for 1 liter of 20 ppm Colloidal silver at various constant currents:

Current mA      Time minutes
  3                  100
  5                  60
  6                  50
  10                 30
  15                 20
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Smoke7 on March 26, 2020, 09:01:40 PM
P.S.

I went ahead and converted to colloidal silver with 4 drops of the reducing agent. Looks much lighter than the previous and the laser beam is not strong as it was in Ionic. However I am still confused why I am seeing that laser beam?
Any help will be much appreciated. 
Thank you
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: cfnisbet on March 26, 2020, 09:22:27 PM
Forget the laser. It tells you nothing.

The only variables are current and time. If you don't have an exact Constant Current (you really would be better off with this) then you can approximate it by working out the equation in time chunks and then adding the ppm results together.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Smoke7 on March 26, 2020, 09:39:44 PM
Thanks for reply.
I did not get any chunks and didn't have to clean the silver roads during the process, the picture is shows the roads after an hour of process. Nothing build up on the roads and the current was 4.6-4.8 almost all the time, I may had to adjust once or twice by 00.1ma.

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: nix2p on March 28, 2020, 10:41:36 PM

Emergency kit, for making colloidal silver, (by Mark, ex-forum member):

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xur-oP3bmbc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xur-oP3bmbc)

Nix
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: bcboy on March 28, 2020, 11:29:32 PM

Emergency kit, for making colloidal silver, (by Mark, ex-forum member):

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xur-oP3bmbc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xur-oP3bmbc)

Nix
Thanks for posting the link.
 ;D
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: cfnisbet on March 29, 2020, 12:40:50 PM
Thanks for reply.
I did not get any chunks and didn't have to clean the silver roads during the process, the picture is shows the roads after an hour of process. Nothing build up on the roads and the current was 4.6-4.8 almost all the time, I may had to adjust once or twice by 00.1ma.

Thanks again.
I think that I used the wrong word, there. When I said "chunks" I meant small time intervals, not physical chunks of silver oxide.

It is possible to do the calculation on a spreadsheet so that you input the time in minutes and the amperage, and the spreadsheet will calculate the resulting ppm made for that time interval; if you then repeat this, you can add the ppm figures together and produce an approximate total of silver ppm in the resulting batch.

This is actually what the SilverTron does; it counts the silver ions generated over the time interval and integrates the total, only much more accurately.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Smoke7 on March 31, 2020, 06:12:22 AM
Thanks for reply.
I did not get any chunks and didn't have to clean the silver roads during the process, the picture is shows the roads after an hour of process. Nothing build up on the roads and the current was 4.6-4.8 almost all the time, I may had to adjust once or twice by 00.1ma.

Thanks again.
I think that I used the wrong word, there. When I said "chunks" I meant small time intervals, not physical chunks of silver oxide.

It is possible to do the calculation on a spreadsheet so that you input the time in minutes and the amperage, and the spreadsheet will calculate the resulting ppm made for that time interval; if you then repeat this, you can add the ppm figures together and produce an approximate total of silver ppm in the resulting batch.

This is actually what the SilverTron does; it counts the silver ions generated over the time interval and integrates the total, only much more accurately.
Thanks for the explanation, I’ve got really confused with word "chunks" ;D ;D. I found your new post and waiting for completion. Thank you for doing that, we all really appreciate your time and help.     
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: cfnisbet on March 31, 2020, 10:43:27 AM
Your last photo looks pefect for 20 ppm.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Smoke7 on March 31, 2020, 11:35:10 PM
Your last photo looks perfect for 20 ppm.
Thank you, It means a lot to me.  :)
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Toenail on April 04, 2020, 03:06:43 AM
I greatly appreciate the information on this site as it has made my attempts to make excellent colloidal silver.  I really though I had established my final setup but I see something I did not expect.  I am using a 30 vdc supply with a LM317 to keep the current constant.  It seems to really work great.  I used a 14 gauge solid copper wire for the Cathode and a 1 ounce bar for the Anode.  The bar is almost completely submerged.  I adjusted the voltage to approximately 18 volts and the current to 10ma and ran for 30 minutes.  It seemed to make a really nicely colored liter of Colloidal Silver but I did notice something I had not seen before.  The Cathode was providing a steady stream of fine bubbles.  Not the same as the smoke I have seen previously from the Anode.  I use a stirrer and it pulls a pool down about 1 1/2 inches.  Am I doing something wrong.  I see no smoke from the Anode.  Anyone have a comment? 
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Toenail on April 07, 2020, 03:46:47 PM
Thanks for the reply.  I am very pleased with the results from following the basic guidelines presented here.  I did find other information on the internet but this site seems to be the very best.

 
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Turbidaceous on April 07, 2020, 04:20:56 PM
This reminds me why I am here. Who, but a scientist/chemist/etc would know this and be able to plan something like the recipe on this site to reliably make a good Colloidal Silver product? You just cannot beat this forum. I very much appreciate what you have done for the world. It may not be easy for a lot of people to do, but you have made this so much more accessible to those of us who can do it, when we know how.

Thanks

The negative electrode generates hydrogen gas when the sodium ions are reduced and then react with water.

Na + H2O  -> NaOH +H

This regenerates the electrolyte.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: RedDogJT on April 09, 2020, 05:50:17 PM
Thanks for the reply.  I am very pleased with the results from following the basic guidelines presented here.  I did find other information on the internet but this site seems to be the very best.
Toenail, you said you are using a magnetic stirrer? Then no heat?  You also mentioned it pulls down the surface with the vortex wave?  I could see that might create problems if your not careful.  Is the stirrer dialed down to the lowest setting?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: RedDogJT on April 09, 2020, 06:04:02 PM

Emergency kit, for making colloidal silver, (by Mark, ex-forum member):

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xur-oP3bmbc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xur-oP3bmbc)

Nix
Thanks Nix, but on the baking the baking soda, is that also recommended here?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: RedDogJT on April 09, 2020, 08:08:56 PM
You must either use washing soda, or baking soda that has been converted.
So it is just sodium carbonate, nothing else? That is what this product is then? It is so darn cheap, less than $5 and free shipping! I'm wondering if this is pure?
Some of the online resources have cautions if ingested and others call it a "food additive"  Are they all equal if they only say Sodium Carbonate?

Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: cfnisbet on April 09, 2020, 08:25:26 PM
Arm & Hammer Soldium Carbonate is the one you want if you are not making your own. Remember that you need to use a little more is you use the sodium carbonate monohydrate. 12.4 g per 100 mls of Distilled Water.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: TheresaBee on April 22, 2020, 08:52:58 PM
Evening all.
I hope this is the right place to post my plea for assistance. I've been making 2 litre batches of gel capped 320ppm with my Silvertron with no problems. However, the last three times I've got it up and running, I've found the oxide build up on the anode and cathode suddenly switches about a third of the way through, and silver plates the inside of my jar instead! Every time I suspend the run to clean the anode and cathode, there is next to nothing to wipe off, and I see the jar has started to get the shiny silver look.
I've tried making fresh electrolyte, and my workspace is scrupulously clean, but the batch I'm doing today is going the same way. It seems to start off fine,  the first time I suspend the run to clean, there is the normal expected amount of oxide to remove, but it goes tits up after that I'm sorry to say.  :(
My question is, why has it started to do this? (I've been making silver for about 2 and a half years with my Silvertron) oh and also is the colloidal silver useless? Technically that's two questions sorry  ;D
P.s The finished stuff tastes and behaves normally, and is clear once diluted in a glass of water, so I dunno what I'm doing!
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: RedDogJT on April 22, 2020, 08:56:57 PM
Best to wait for the expert wgpeters to answer, as it is a technical and mechanical problem.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: RedDogJT on April 22, 2020, 10:07:51 PM
@TheresaBee:

Apparently some difference has snuck into your procedures.  The jar silvers because the ionic silver is not being reduced fast enough, which may imply your reducing agent has gone bad, or is not enough.  So I would double check your Karo.

Once a jar has become silvered, you should not use until the silver is removed from the jars surface.  If its still semi transparent, you can salvage it by soaking it in peroxide.  The silvering creates another electrode which interferes with the process.

Since it used to work for you, something has changed with the chemistry.
Speaking of chemistry, WG can you tell me why Hydrogen Peroxide will interact and clean silver?  I'm asking because many people (myself included) inhale H2O2 almost everyday.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: RedDogJT on April 23, 2020, 12:17:02 AM
Peroxide is a very strong oxidizer.  1 Liter of peroxide can produce 10 liters of oxygen.

Peroxide reacts with silver giving off oxygen and converting the silver metal to silver oxide.

2Ag + 4H202 --> 2Ag0 + 4H2O +O2

This reaction was used to power torpedoes in Russian submarines at one time.  A leaking peroxide valve caused a torpedo to explode in the Russian Kursk, sinking the sub.
Those pesky Russian's!  :D
So silver oxide is not a good thing in our bodies?  I'm asking again because I'm dosing with two highly oxidizing elements: Vitamin C and H202.  Naturally, I don't want to sink my own sub! ???
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: TheresaBee on April 23, 2020, 12:48:46 AM
@TheresaBee:

Apparently some difference has snuck into your procedures.  The jar silvers because the ionic silver is not being reduced fast enough, which may imply your reducing agent has gone bad, or is not enough.  So I would double check your Karo.

You could be on to something there! My Karo is 2 and a half years old. So are the 2 litres I've just made useless? Do I chuck the lot, or does it still have the same amount of nanoparticles and stuff?
I'm cleaning the jar with peroxide after use, it's the only thing that will clean it.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: RedDogJT on April 23, 2020, 01:28:19 AM
Karo will typically mold if not refrigerated, and even if refrigerated I don't think it will last that long.  I would not want anything that had mold in it.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: imcool on April 23, 2020, 04:28:30 PM
Peroxide is a very strong oxidizer.  1 Liter of peroxide can produce 10 liters of oxygen.

Peroxide reacts with silver giving off oxygen and converting the silver metal to silver oxide.

2Ag + 4H202 --> 2Ag0 + 4H2O +O2

This reaction was used to power torpedoes in Russian submarines at one time.  A leaking peroxide valve caused a torpedo to explode in the Russian Kursk, sinking the sub.
Those pesky Russian's!  :D
So silver oxide is not a good thing in our bodies?  I'm asking again because I'm dosing with two highly oxidizing elements: Vitamin C and H202.  Naturally, I don't want to sink my own sub! ???
Vitamin C is not an oxidizing agent, it is a reducing agent.  Any substance which is know to be an anti-oxidant is in reality a reducing agent, excluding things like paint which we use to keep our car fenders from turning to rust.

Silver oxide is not good to ingest.  It turns to silver chloride in the stomach and is what can turn people into smurfs.

sorry to divert the thread a little bit, Kephra, can you please help me with this issue i ran into with gold water

https://www.cgcsforum.org/index.php?topic=5108.0
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: imcool on April 23, 2020, 05:23:23 PM
Filter it.

I did and it developed again, i forgot to mentioned this is second time it developed, i did filter it the first time thinking that its some impurity, i might have missed
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Josie29 on April 23, 2020, 05:47:22 PM
TheresaBee:

I make 320 ppm frequently.

Recently I noted one batch during which the glass became very 'silvered.'

The only thing I had done differently was change my heat to <150 degrees F.

I don't know 'scientifically' if the heat change was the cause ... but since then I have had my heat such that the water was near a boil, but not boiling and I haven't had the silvering issue since.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: vikramaditya on April 27, 2020, 03:18:34 PM
This is my first question on this forum and I am newbie so pardon if my question is silly.
I wanted to do 320ppm AgNP but since I am pure vegetarian I would not be able to use Gelatin for capping. The question is that can I use Agar Agar(vegetarian gelatin substitute) instead?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: SaltyCornflakes on April 27, 2020, 04:40:18 PM
Vegan alternatives are digested in the stomach, so they don't work.
I would either bite the bullet and use gelatin, or just do without it and make a lower ppm.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: vikramaditya on April 27, 2020, 05:05:43 PM
Thanks for the reply. I will stick with lower 20ppm batches for now.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: imcool on April 28, 2020, 05:47:22 PM
Thanks for the reply. I will stick with lower 20ppm batches for now.
you never replied to my question, https://www.cgcsforum.org/index.php?topic=5103.0

The answer to my question is here,

https://www.cgcsforum.org/index.php?topic=5112.msg42520#msg42520



Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: cfnisbet on April 28, 2020, 07:07:52 PM
This is my first question on this forum and I am newbie so pardon if my question is silly.
I wanted to do 320ppm AgNP but since I am pure vegetarian I would not be able to use Gelatin for capping. The question is that can I use Agar Agar(vegetarian gelatin substitute) instead?
Use cinnamon tincture. It resists the stomach acids reasonably well, and you can make Colloidal Silver up to 100 ppm quite easily.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: FlyingDutchman on April 29, 2020, 01:41:45 PM
This is my first question on this forum and I am newbie so pardon if my question is silly.
I wanted to do 320ppm AgNP but since I am pure vegetarian I would not be able to use Gelatin for capping. The question is that can I use Agar Agar(vegetarian gelatin substitute) instead?
Agar-agar will not work, but Orange pectin is a strong vegan capping agent. The only drawback is the bitter taste.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: SaltyCornflakes on April 29, 2020, 02:26:15 PM
Good call FlyingDutchman, I had no idea that pectin may work. Will order that next.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: cosanostra on April 29, 2020, 02:56:04 PM
This is my first question on this forum and I am newbie so pardon if my question is silly.
I wanted to do 320ppm AgNP but since I am pure vegetarian I would not be able to use Gelatin for capping. The question is that can I use Agar Agar(vegetarian gelatin substitute) instead?
Agar-agar will not work, but Orange pectin is a strong vegan capping agent. The only drawback is the bitter taste.
I'm using apple pectin and it's good enough
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Patnuck on July 18, 2020, 01:00:51 AM
When trying to dilute 40 ppm colloidal silver using tap water 50/50 the resulting solution turned pinkish purple colour, tried again with filtered water from the fridge with same result. Finally diluted with steam distilled water with good results. Can someone please explain what could be the problem with the tap water. Thanks
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: cfnisbet on July 18, 2020, 01:52:40 PM
This colour change is due to the pH of the water, or (less likely) the minerals within it.

If your water is very acid, then it's going to damage the colloid. Likewise if there are any oxidisers in the water. Some types of tap or bottled water can be mixed without any issue; I saw a person try to turn Ionic Silver Oxide into silver chloride (a white cloud as the silver oxide reduces to silver chloride) under the effect of the chlorine in tap water, and he used bottled water. His demonstration failed, showing that all potable waters may be very different.

If you are unlucky enough to have very reactive tap water, then this can happen.
Title: Re: Requesting help. >>> Measuring mA and Volt Across Electrodes using Lab PS
Post by: Barra on July 20, 2020, 08:13:30 PM
Need Help Measuring and Optimizing mA and Volts Across Electrodes in adjustable Lab Power Supply Setup

Problem: I am having trouble measuring my volts/mA across my electrodes in my Lab power supply setup and was wondering if someone could help.

The goal: To run 5mA with a constant current (CC) from the PS and to adjust the voltage by adjusting the depth of the copper until I get between 10 to 15 volts. To be able to do this, I want to use my multimeter to check both voltage and mA and to adjust using my Lab PS dial and by adjusting my copper diode depth in relation to the silver.

My starting point: With a liter of water, and a 10 gauge silver anode, I am looking to achieve 5mA with 15 volts for 60 minutes to produce 20 PPM ionic silver. I start by maximizing the PS to 30 volts, insert my copper 1/2 inch, silver 1.5 inches for a 3x ratio, and keep the electrodes 1.5 inches apart. This was pulled from the forum, so please correct me if I am wrong.

I have:


Wired running multimeter in series:
+PS to MM V+ (to measure volts or A+ to measure mA), MM COM to silver + anode, copper diode- to PS-

QUESTIONS:
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: gkar on July 21, 2020, 10:42:46 AM
Welcome to the forum, you're at the right place to learn. I'll see if I can help, from one rookie, to another:

If you haven't already, have a good read on the 'Articles' Forum, as well cfnisbet's excellent threads on Colloidal Silver production:
https://www.cgcsforum.org/index.php?topic=4965.0

The multimeter (MM) is connected properly, according to your description.

Does your power supply (PS) have a CC indicator light? If so, is it coming on?
The process is governed by the amperage, not the voltage. I just set my PS to maximum voltage -30VDC is fine, & the amperage to about 4-5mA {the voltage will be what it is}. Power supplies aren't designed to operate accurately at such low amperages, that's why you use a multimeter, connected in series. As long as the CC light remains constantly on, & the VDC doesn't drop below 10VDC, then you will be OK.

I leave my PS display set to maximum voltage (about 24VDC), & ignore the PS amperage rating, as mine is usually out by up to 1-2A. eg. my PS will show a 4mA rating, whereas the MM will indicate 530-570mAs. So it's always best to refer to the MM.

It is recommended to initially switch on the PS, for about 3 seconds, to gauge the mA, adjust if necessary, to attain about 5mA. Quickly retest, then do the calculation {your calculation is good}, & switch on for the Colloidal Silver production run. If you have 0mAs, then something is going on, that shouldn't.

Have you added the electrolyte? I forgot once, & had zero mA, as distilled water has virtually no impurities, it will struggle to generate a current.

Are you sure the MM hasn't blown the mA fuse? Try setting the MM to the 10A, & see you have a reading there. It will work, just be less accurate -show 0.005mA, as opposed to 500mA, when the MM is set to the mA rating.

To add an image, click on the 'Attachments and other options' below the dialogue box. You can add images, photos, etc. on your local PC, from there.

See how you go. Seems your basics are sound. If any of the forum's experts note any inconsistencies, then please correct me.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on August 03, 2021, 01:52:47 PM
Hi I am new in this forum and i have been trying to read all post inside the forum but i stii have not found anything about pure ionic silver
I have read an australian company said that their product is pure ionic silver solution they quote
"These Silver Ions are made with a built-in delivery mechanism to shield them from chloride and other salts,enabling them to be delivered intact to where they are needed."

They also said the pure ionic silver should not have clear tyndall effect because ionic silver solution is not metal particles

It makes me confuse and give me a question mark, because im sorry our home made collodial silver or ionic silver does not have ability to shield it from chloride and other salt

So sorry for my bad english and knowledge about this silver solution

Thank you, really appreciate all
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on August 03, 2021, 05:50:56 PM
Quote
I have read an australian company said that their product is pure ionic silver solution they quote

Wrong.  Silver ions (positive) must have an accompanying negative ion, such as oxide, chloride.  Its physically impossible to make a solution containing only silver ions.

Quote
They also said the pure ionic silver should not have clear tyndall effect because ionic silver solution is not metal particles
Wrong again.  The tyndall effect is caused by light reflecting off large particles.  Ions are the size of a single atom, and cannot reflect light. 
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on August 04, 2021, 01:31:05 AM
Thank you for you reply sir,
I think what they want to tell us is they created pure silver ion with stabilizing agent to cover up ag+ so it would not reacting  fast with chloride when entering our body and their product does not have tyndall effect since it does not contain large metal particles
from what i read on your post the positively charged silver ions are atracting OH- during electrolysis, so basically it wont react fas when entering our body because it has been stabilized ( its my assumption ) even without reducing agent or capping agent right?

Attachment below  is from chinese company claimed he made what they call pure nano silver


I also read you ask someone at your early post, If he wants to make ionic silver or colloidal silver, can you please explain to me a little bit what is the different of functionality and production method, a simple explanation

Thank you
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on August 04, 2021, 03:12:09 AM
Quote
I think what they want to tell us is they created pure silver ion with stabilizing agent to cover up ag+ so it would not reacting  fast with chloride when entering our body and their product does not have tyndall effect since it does not contain large metal particles
Sorry, but you cannot cap or stabilize ions.  You can only react them with something else (oxygen, chloride, nitrates, etc).
If you make it with only distilled water, you will get silver oxide.  Silver oxide does react with hydrochloric acid making silver chloride.

It is possible to make pure silver nanoparticles, but not for the amateur home producer. Laser ablation is one method, but not electrolysis.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on August 04, 2021, 07:59:30 AM
OK sir, so the reducer or capping agent basically to stabilize colloidial silver nano particles right?
I want to use it for external use like disinfectant, sanitizer spray, and the colloidal silver has same or better efficacy compare with silver ion right?
Because if not mistaken there are some articles said colloidal silver has less antimicrobial or antiviral efficacy
But if i produce silver ion with very low current method probably its very unstable and loss his ability when it kept for certain period of time

Thanks again for your time
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on August 04, 2021, 10:12:36 AM
Hallo again sir, I read your articles on another website about Ionic Vs. Metallic Colloidal Silver
and I finally get what you meant, Thank you very much
I have another question
You said the tyndal effect is not important as colloidal measurement, so my question is if i used 50mmx80mmx1,5 mm which is around
6,4 square inch on 1 side ( around 12,8 sq inch on both sides )

What is the maximum current allowed to get best colloidal silver without clear tyndall effect for 50ppm solution per litre?
Is it a good choice if i put a copper wire act as cathode on both silver bar side since its only facing 1 direction?
third and final  question for today is what happen if i only use 2mA compare with 15mA that you recommended? Will it only produce silver ion with a smaller particles compare with 15mA or it just a waste of time because of the longer period of time since we still need to add reducer or capping agent to stabilize it

Thanks
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Gene on August 04, 2021, 08:55:04 PM
I'll let Kephra or someone else answer this but just an observation.

It takes time for the silver oxide the cell is pushing into solution off the anode to actually DISSOLVE. The faster you produce, the more the chance that the particles of silver oxide won't dissolve fast enough and instead clump together and now NOT go into solution which would mean they'd never reduce and you'd be left with a pea soup of some Colloidal Silver and some IS which you absolutely don't want.

With that big an anode, you most assuredly can go up to 20-25ma. A bullion bar is maybe 1-1.5 square inches on a side - something like that and people do go to 20-25ma here BUT with higher production speed, you need a higher temperature to overcome the speed of dissolution issue and to seriously speed up reduction time.

At 150F, the solubility limit of silver oxide in water is about 40PPM.

You need to produce slowly enough that you give the cell enough time for the silver oxide you're pulling into solution to both dissolve and then be reduced so the (not yet reduced to Colloidal Silver) ionic silver PPM NEVER goes over 40PPM or else you start precipitating out silver oxide which will then not reduce and you're back to that pea soup again.

Its all a balancing act and you have to find YOUR "sweet spot" and stick to it.

You can see the speed of dissolution issue by bumping the current up and up and shining a light through the cell. When you start seening "clouds" - arms of cloudiness coming off the anode, your current is too high because you're pushing silver oxide off the anode faster than it can dissolve.  Back it down 2-5 ma for safety at this point BELOW the current you no longer see the long cloudy "arms". Also, as your anode erodes or is used up, it gets smaller (wire - with a flat bar, thats less of an issue - it'll get thinner to the point its not usable anymore but still have a lot of surface area) and a smaller anode increases current density which pushes the same amount of silver oxide into the water from a smaller surface area so the density goes up and we're back potentially to that "too high a current" issue.

Start low (say 10-15ma with that electrode but at a higher temp like 150F) and see how good the stuff you make looks.  If you're satisfied its good (if not you have to drop the current and try again the opposite direction until you reach "good enough and call it even at that), with the next batch, bump it up 2-5ma and compare that to what you just made, inching up on "your" limit based on how you make it (size of anode, current, temperature,..).  Once you reach the "not good" stage or by your own metrics, "not good ENOUGH", I'd back down to the current you used for the last batch you'd call "good enough" and call it even, maybe even go 1-2ma below this for a little more safety and a slightly better product.

Also, if you're adding the gelatine up front which is suggested for PPM's over 20, the reduction speed will be SLOWER so you do have to take this into account too.

You obviously have a hotplate because to make higher than 20PPM its required. You need to get the solubility limit of the cell high enough that your dissolution time plus reduction time KEEPS the dissolved silver oxide BELOW the solubility limit at whatever temperature you're running your cell or else not good.

In other words, figure out what works best for you and yields the quality of product you're wanting and then maybe back the current down a milliamp or two for a bit of wiggle room.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on August 04, 2021, 09:32:47 PM
Quote
What is the maximum current allowed to get best colloidal silver without clear tyndall effect for 50ppm solution per litre?
Maximum current depends on cell voltage, electrode spacing, temperature, stirring, surface area of anode.  It would have to be determined experimentally for your setup.  There is no magic formula.

Quote
Is it a good choice if i put a copper wire act as cathode on both silver bar side since its only facing 1 direction?
Never use two cathodes.  If you put one cathode facing one side of you anode and another facing the other side, the electric fields cancel out.  It the electric fields that move ions from one side to the other.  There is just no reason to use more than one cathode.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on August 05, 2021, 02:40:54 AM
Thank you very much for Kephra and Gene for the explanation, i will try to make a batch first and see how it goes
I dont have a hot plate magnetic steering at the moment so i will go for 20 ppm for now
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on August 09, 2021, 05:17:49 PM
Hi Mr Kephra
I have tried 2 batch of 20 ppm and another one is 40 ppm but the 40 ppm looks so dark

1. 750ml dw, 0,75 ml 1 mol electrolyte, 0,2 grams of matodexrin added after finish run for  15 minutes 15,2 mA 20,8 volts
2. 750ml dw, 0,75 ml 1 mol electrolyte, 0,4 grams of maltodextrin heated to 150F and started electrolysys for 30 minutes at 15,2 mA current and 15 volts

my 1st batch is ok i guess
my 2nd batch is very dark, i dont know if too much maltodextrin or to low voltage because i forgot to adjust the copper to get 20.8 volts and let it runs at 15 volts

The coppper wire which is around 12 gauge is around 20mm below water level, It is too little copper wire inside the soulutin probably the surface area is only 1/200 surface area of the cahtode 0,1 square inch compare with 12 square inch of anode, maybe the copper wire not deep enough but make it deeper will eventually lower the voltage like you have been telling us on some articles
I was thinking maybe the distance between the lowest silver plate is too far from the end of the  copper on cathode and it probably need more voltage, i calculated using phytagoras methode its around 3,46 inch wide between it, please help
Or maybe because i do not use a borrosillicate glass when i heated it up to 150 F and start the electrolysys
The picture i show you is a plastic container on the right because i broke my other glass container during heating

thanks
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on August 09, 2021, 05:42:35 PM
What did you measure your current with?
Your run times are incorrect.  20 ppm time should be 11 minutes and 10 seconds at 15.2 ma
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on August 09, 2021, 06:24:51 PM
im using multimeter to measure , connect it in series before positive line going into the anode
the run time im following waynepxe calculator v 2.01
thanks
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on August 09, 2021, 06:46:48 PM
Quote
the run time im following waynepxe calculator v 2.01
Its incorrect,  you are using the run time for a liter, but you only have 750ml.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on August 10, 2021, 12:45:48 AM
ok im quite confused
Mins run time = Volume of DW (Ltrs) x ppm AgNP required x 15
divided by milliAmps on constant-current power supply
(0.75 x 20 x 15)/ 15 mA eventually will give me 15 minutes

so you are saying the formulation is totally wrong?
can you please show me the right formulation? thanks
         
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on August 10, 2021, 03:17:31 AM
No, you are correct.   I dont know what I was thinking.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on August 10, 2021, 05:56:27 AM
Hi Mr Kephra
I have tried 2 batch of 20 ppm and another one is 40 ppm but the 40 ppm looks so dark

1. 750ml dw, 0,75 ml 1 mol electrolyte, 0,2 grams of matodexrin added after finish run for  15 minutes 15,2 mA 20,8 volts
2. 750ml dw, 0,75 ml 1 mol electrolyte, 0,4 grams of maltodextrin heated to 150F and started electrolysys for 30 minutes at 15,2 mA current and 15 volts

my 1st batch is ok i guess
my 2nd batch is very dark, i dont know if too much maltodextrin or to low voltage because i forgot to adjust the copper to get 20.8 volts and let it runs at 15 volts

The coppper wire which is around 12 gauge is around 20mm below water level, It is too little copper wire inside the soulutin probably the surface area is only 1/200 surface area of the cahtode 0,1 square inch compare with 12 square inch of anode, maybe the copper wire not deep enough but make it deeper will eventually lower the voltage like you have been telling us on some articles
I was thinking maybe the distance between the lowest silver plate is too far from the end of the  copper on cathode and it probably need more voltage, i calculated using phytagoras methode its around 3,46 inch wide between it, please help
Or maybe because i do not use a borrosillicate glass when i heated it up to 150 F and start the electrolysys
The picture i show you is a plastic container on the right because i broke my other glass container during heating

thanks

Dont worry about it sir  ;D
Hi sir, could you please give me an idea about it?
1. Does only around 2,5 mm ( 12 gauge ) of copper wire around 20 mm below the water surface acceptable?
2. my 40 pppm looks real dark, possibly because i heated up to 160F before starting electrolysys process?  and stirred it around 30 minutes according to (0,75 x 40 x 15) / 15 = 30  minutes without further heating, because i monitor it and only drop around 7 degrees within 30 minutes
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on August 10, 2021, 08:26:29 AM
Quote
1. Does only around 2,5 mm ( 12 gauge ) of copper wire around 20 mm below the water surface acceptable?
It does not matter.  The only thing that matters with the negative electrode is that it is adjusted to get 10 volts minimum for an electrode spacing of about 37mm.

Quote
2. my 40 pppm looks real dark, possibly because i heated up to 160F before starting electrolysys process?  and stirred it around 30 minutes according to (0,75 x 40 x 15) / 15 = 30  minutes without further heating, because i monitor it and only drop around 7 degrees within 30 minutes

To judge the color, dilute it back to 20ppm by adding distilled water to a sample.  It should look light yellow like this:
https://www.cgcsforum.org/pix/ccsilver_corrected.JPG

Color is determined by both particle size and ppm.  Larger particles make it darker.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on August 10, 2021, 02:24:36 PM
Hi again, sorry for so many question, I just re-read about most of the articles for beginner preparation and i make a conclusion:

20/40 PPM solution is possible to be reduced and capped using maltodextrin cold/heated an it should be use only for external solution   ( no need to be gel-capped )
The same solution need to be gel capped using gelatine if want to take it orally or for internal use especially for human

Do i conclude it correctly?

Both solution can be keep at storage bottles for years  at room temperature ?

My other question is If i want to use colloidal silver as supplement in animal drinking water like chicken or birds to fight e-coli and viruses and CRD diseases and viruses like H1N1, which solution should i choose ? with maltodextrin only or maltodextrin + gelatine capped?
I dont know if animal has lung acid or not, so i am quite confuse which solution is the best option?

thanks
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on August 10, 2021, 02:49:16 PM
Quote
20/40 PPM solution is possible to be reduced and capped using maltodextrin cold/heated an it should be use only for external solution   ( no need to be gel-capped )
The same solution need to be gel capped using gelatine if want to take it orally or for internal use especially for human
It does not have to be gelatine capped for internal use.  Lots of us don't.  I don't. 
For animals, I would just give them 20ppm, not gelatine capped.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Gene on August 11, 2021, 12:04:10 AM
Also, the upper limit for PPM for non-gel capped (a.k.a. "naked") is not 40PPM. I routinely make 80PPM BUT over 20PPM you have to use maltodextrin as Karo isn't a sufficient stabilizer and it will go bad over time if you do use it.

I've had jars of malto reduced 80PPM for years and they were good to the last drop.

You need to process hot (150F) and you need to add the whole amount of reducer at the beginning of the run.  Other than that, no magic - everything else the same.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on August 11, 2021, 12:29:27 AM
yup i did process at 160F for above 20 ppm but i heated it up at the beginning before electrolysys process start, when the liquid solution reach 160F , i move it to magnetic stirrer and start the electrolysys, the liquid eventually will get down to 140-145 after 30 minutes, but is it still acceptable way of processing it? im not sure about it, i dont have hot plate magnetic stirrer so this is why im doing this way

If i have hotplate magnetic stirrer , after adding electrolyte and malto,  we should heat it during the process or before the process and during the process ( read few articles but i want to make sure because im not sure i understood correctly )

do we need to make a hole to let any air produce by the process being remove from the jar/beaker ?

thanks
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Gene on August 11, 2021, 06:26:14 AM
I don't use a stirrer. I don't have a heated stir plate.

At 150-160F constant heating on a hotplate, you will get enough of a convection current in the water to stir well enough constantly that its not really necessary - at least at 10ma or less. If you're pushing the current higher you probably do need to stir some.

The heat is for 2 purposes. It buys you some wiggle room with PPM because now the IS PPM can get up to 40PPM before it starts precipitating out and it speeds up the reduction process.  As long as your reduction process works fast enough that you never have more than about 40PPM IS (not sure what 140F would be but lets say 30PPM) you're fine.  WHen the run is done it probably will need to sit at a reasonable temp for 10-15 minutes after to make sure all the IS is reduced to Colloidal Silver.

Again, no magic - standard processing.

From an earlier post of yours...  Colloidal Silver is NOT a supplement. Its not meant to be ingested every day. Thats a REALLY bad idea. Its meant to be used when you have an issue and stopped when its gone.

I know at least dogs can drink water with Colloidal Silver in it.  Kephra had a dog that had issues and he gave him Colloidal Silver every day to help.  Here this was NOT a supplement. The dogs issues were chronic so the Colloidal Silver needed to be continued.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on August 11, 2021, 01:51:32 PM
Quote
I know at least dogs can drink water with Colloidal Silver in it.  Kephra had a dog that had issues and he gave him Colloidal Silver every day to help.
Yes, I gave my Jack Russell Terrier nothing to drink except 20ppm Colloidal Silver for 2 years.  She showed no signs of Argyria.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: dimoune on August 13, 2021, 10:37:11 PM
Where can I get this table please?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on August 14, 2021, 03:27:19 PM
My entire silver anode surface area is black/ dark after run for few minutes, will it affect the quality?

I read all members saying about fire clean? what does it means? using fire to clean it? or chemically?

Thanks
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on August 14, 2021, 07:54:36 PM
Turning black is normal.
To fire clean, which turns the black silver oxide into pure silver again, heat it in a blue flame until it turns white. 
Avoid melting the silver.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on August 14, 2021, 10:53:36 PM
thank you sir
does it has to be fired until red colour?
can i put it directly inside water after heated?
i found if we fire it until in turn red , the silver  does not looks as clear as it should , doff silver ?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Gene on August 15, 2021, 06:38:01 AM
The silver oxide turns back into silver and melts to the surface of the wire or bullion bar. It won't get shiny silver color. It looks almost refrigerator white.  It also feels a little strange once cooled.

No you don't have to heat it to red hot.  Just until you get that nice, white color coating on your anode with no darker grey smudges or spots.

I actually use a butane torch - the type professional chefs use.  That gets to about 2500F which is plenty hot enough.  For those without a gas range (my home is electric), this is a good alternative.

Even that cheap little orange colored butane torch from Harbor Freight (I have one of these too) works well also.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on August 15, 2021, 10:32:19 AM
can we clean it using traditional methode using sodium bicarbonate, warm water and aluminium foil, or i wont works on silver oxide?

i am firing it on top of my gas stove but some area still has burn marks, i am starting to think that my silver not pure enough, i bought it at my brothers in law but maybe he used borax to lower the temp on kowi ceramic surface
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Gene on August 15, 2021, 07:12:47 PM
You could just wipe off the grey "dust" BUT in so doing you're throwing away a lot of valuable silver.

By flame cleaning you're converting the grey silver oxide on the surface back to silver thats melted to the rest of the bar or wire.

I don't know how to check silver purity, sorry. I just buy 3 9's purity from a reputable supplier and call it even.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: cfnisbet on August 16, 2021, 08:57:22 AM
The best way of checking purity of silver is to walk into a jeweller's shop and ask him to have it hallmarked. That's what I would do if I were selling Colloidal Silver commercially. Failing that (quite a lot cheaper), just ask him to acid-test it (or buy an acid-test kit from ebay or amazon.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on August 17, 2021, 05:25:22 AM
I have seen very tiny small bubbles fogs smokes rapidly coming out from the cathode going towards anode, this is normal right??
Parts of the process or wrong polarity ? i think i read something about OH- release from the cahthode,
but i cant remember where, please help

This is the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrz7sWT0Y-A

Please have a look
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: cfnisbet on August 17, 2021, 08:41:44 AM
Normal. Electrodes undergoing electrolysis split water into oxygen and hydrogen as well as the silver oxide creation process. You are just seeing microscopic oxygen and hydrogen bubbles.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on August 17, 2021, 08:54:46 AM
Great, thank you for the explanation
I though i saw too high current, too high voltage or probably worst wrong polarity
Anyway small wire (25 gauge ) need longer rod sink under the water surface to get same 13.5 mA compare with 12 gauge
but longer wire means more water split like my video, and from what i read thats a better way of processing it right?
A post inside one of the articles said the smaller the wire the better
Just to be sure
Thanks
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on August 17, 2021, 12:49:21 PM
Quote
I have seen very tiny small bubbles fogs smokes rapidly coming out from the cathode going towards anode, this is normal right??
Yes normal.
The bubbles are pure hydrogen caused by the reduction of sodium hydroxide at the cathode.

The sodium instantly reacts with water giving off Hydrogen.
2Na + 2H2O --> 2NaOH +H2
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Gene on August 18, 2021, 03:18:48 AM
The "smoke" that you read about, if you shine a light through the cell and see long wispy "arms" of cloudy solution (a.k.a. "smoke" by analogy) coming off the anode where they kind of linger or meander around some, you need to drop the current you're running at as its too high for the surface area of the anode you're using.

What you're seeing is silver oxide being pushed off the anode that has yet to dissolve because its being produced too quickly by too high a current.  It may dissolve, it may not but seeing this, you're either borderline or over the wire and really need to back things down until you stop seeing it and then back off another milliamp or two or three for some wiggle room.

The bubbles around the cathode are normal, expected and what you WANT to see.

Anode "smoke"? NOT!

Sometimes I see it but then look closely and find that there's a lot of bubbles attached to the anode wire (no clue why because they weren't there right before I started up the cell) which are effectively limiting the surface area on the wire in contact with the water where just tapping the connection to the wire outside the cell creates enough mechanical vibration to knock them all off and everything returns to normal and this doesn't happen again during the run.  This doesn't happen often but I have seen it more than once and am still perplexed as to whats causing it and why. No, I'm not stirring - just letting the convection current in the water from the container being bottom heated, keeping the water at 150F, to keep things in motion.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on August 27, 2021, 02:22:46 PM
Hi I follow instruction on this forum for 160 ppm which is

2 grams of gelatine soak and heated until its clear again
0,5 ml of 50:50 karo vodka diluted
1ml sodium carbonate solution
1000ml dw
heated to around 75 degree and start the process

I follow Gene method using 7,5 mA and i am using 6 Square inch bar so i dont need to fire clean my anode

Why after 5 minutes the colour already start to change to yellow
and after 10 minutes it started getting dark tea colour , and when the process move forward the result get darker and darker
I dont think the is turbidity because the when i use my mobile phone through it, the clarity looks fine

Too little current or too much reducer or too much capping agent ? or too hot ?
Please help

thank you
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on August 27, 2021, 04:19:24 PM
I suspect your current measurements are way off.
Also, why make liter batches until you learn the process.  Why not make 250ml batches?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Gene on August 27, 2021, 10:15:30 PM
I'm assuming you mean 75C, right? Because 75F isn't very hot (wink) and certainly not hot enough to make 320PPM.

I too think your current measurement must be way off (or you live in a temporal distortion - wink) because for me it takes a good 15-20 minutes before I even start to notice any perceptible color change during a run.

A larger anode doesn't mean faster production unless you up the current. Its benefit is that the larger surface area allows you to move the current up without getting into a region where you're producing silver oxide faster than it can dissolve which is when you see that "smoke" which isn't good.

Your anode will produce silver oxide just as fast as my 14 gauge 6" wire one will at 7.5ma (wink). So yeah, something has got to be off on your end.  Given the only thing that can change the color of the water is the reduction of silver oxide to Colloidal Silver, the rapid color change says you're producing much faster and the only thing that can cause this is a much higher current.

So you might want to check your meter and your measurements to try and figure out what could be wrong.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on August 27, 2021, 11:59:33 PM
yup, i run start from 75 degree celcius minimum 70 degree celcius
i have been succeded few batches making 18 ppm without any problem using 13.5 ppm around 20 minutes so i want to try 160 ppm
I always failed making a colloidal silver even at 20 ppm if reducer add up front, any effect of using microwave to heat is faster?

Yesterday i also measure the weight of the silver bar i used
the different is 70mg less before and after process at about 2 hours and 30 minutes almost identical with our formulation

(1*70*15) / 7.5 , which is 140 minutes
so i think the current was not  way too high
if too high probably in 140 minutes  the silver would lose more than 70 mg right?

when i try my first attempt using 13.5 mA i got high turbidity because not enough electrolyte i guess, because i am using 0.8 ml for 1 litre dw
for 2nd attempt its quite clear but it started change colour in just 5 to 10 minutes rapidly and now in 140 minutes the colour look like 200 ppm

so i guess maybe we can elliminate the current
too much reducing agent or too much gelatine wont hurt right? ( I used 2 grams exactly as calculator but for knox:vodka i use around 4 grams )

my guess is too little current or impurities from melted product when its heated, or maybe silver impurities another thing is my preparation procedure i heated the gelatin, electrolyte and karo and stirred too long before started electrolysis

below are my 18 ppm gel capped
the 2nd picture is my 70 ppm after 140 minutes run
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on August 29, 2021, 06:11:36 AM
Hi sir
My hot plate magnetic stirrer that i recently bought only able to heat maximum 75⁰c , the plate it self around 100 degree up but the liquid inside the breaker seems hard to reach 80⁰c
Is it possible if i want to make 320 ppm at maximum 75⁰c

Thanks
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Gene on August 29, 2021, 08:05:47 AM
Unless its the lighting,  that 70PPM batch looks WAY too dark.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on August 29, 2021, 11:01:04 AM
It was dark but not that black, so is it possible using 75⁰c maximum to make 320 ppm ?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on August 31, 2021, 12:37:37 AM
hi, i am manage to make 80 ppm using malto without too visible turbidity or cloudiness, during process it looks clear for me if i did not shine direct light into it but after i cool it down it has visible turbidity
please check below picture, is it still acceptable or something wrong with the process

Left side diluted from 80 ppm , right side is 20 ppm
1st picture looks almost indentical
2nd and 3rd picture with light has visible cloud inside the right breaker
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on August 31, 2021, 08:14:46 AM
Anyone please help, i tried to find answer on this forum but seems i cant get conclusion, is it normal on high ppm that we get cloudiness when we shine a light directly and close to the finish solution ? It still has turbidity when we dilute it to 20 ppm, does not so perfect like a real 20 ppm batch, please help me, thanks
Please check my picture above

Thanks

Really appreciate your time
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on August 31, 2021, 01:57:20 PM
For every process there is normal and there is not normal if something is not quite right.  If you want different results, you have to change your process. 
You could double your maltodextrin.
You could use a lower current.
You could increase your temperature.
You could clean your electrodes during the run.

One thing should be clear to you.  If you start with only silver, maltodextrin, sodium carbonate; the only things you can make from that are silver compounds and silver metal particles.  You can't make anything else.  So the particles that reflect light are one of those two.   Neither one are dangerous.  If I were sick, I would use it even if turbid.




Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on August 31, 2021, 02:24:19 PM
hi, thank you for your reply
i have double it for example i add 1.2 malto for 40 ppm but it looks a little bit turbid
low current try it before but same result
temperature this might be the cause, since my new hotplate stirrer is broken , im still waiting for new triac, i try using hot pot and i can reach 90 degree without steering but the above post was the result, i only used hot plate like Gene did
i do not clean this because it still loked clean, not too much black surface, probably the current not so high, my calculation is around 2.5 mA per square inch facing cathode

Yout statement is enough, the conclusion is turbidity is safe for enough and neither ionic silver compound or silver metal particles are dangerous, this is good enough for me, thanks

I am in a hurry to give this even a turbid one to my  broiler, it sicked because of e coli , the mortality 500 birds per day, but i produce this very slow, i need around 40 liter a day
can you give me suggestion or info if i only use silver + malto and sodium carbonate is totally safe for birds or chicken ?
aiming to kill infected and stop it from spread further
or should i make a gel capped one?
the reason i confuse about it is because water piping line might have calcium hypochloride residue that might be a problem to colloidal silver functionality

thank you, appreciate your time

Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Gene on September 01, 2021, 12:32:50 AM
There are only a couple things that Colloidal Silver is ineffective with.

Sadly, IIRC, e coli is one of them.  But thats in humans.  No clue how it would work in a chicken.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on September 01, 2021, 01:03:56 AM
im sorry, i read on most articles that they use silver as water treatment, drinking water to kill bactery and so on,
even WHO said silver only proven to kill e coli but not others
is it different form of silver like ionic silver not colloidal silver?
thanks
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Gene on September 01, 2021, 02:09:07 AM
https://www.cgcsforum.org/index.php?topic=1146.msg8852#msg8852

I was using what was said in item 2 to base my statement on but I see that it says "some strains" so perhaps it might work.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on September 02, 2021, 01:19:11 AM
thank you for your info Gene
another thing i notice that after 20 or 40 ppm running hot , the pH is lower than initial value, do we need to do anything with it or just let heat do its job?
I cant get a totally dark room, will it effect much to result?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on September 02, 2021, 02:12:13 AM
pH decreases with increasing temperature.  Was your initial reading done cold vs final reading done hot?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on September 02, 2021, 03:49:38 AM
initial reading measure at 70 degree celcius before start
2nd reading at 40 ppm 80 degree celcius
20 ppm still above 8 value
im using pH strip normaly 8 above get dark green

when you made 320 ppm, are you adding more electrolyte during process sir? or just at the beginning?
i clean anode and cathode every 42 minutes
i add 120 ppm gelatine which is around 1.5 grams undiluted and follow instruction, bloom and heat it , i also add 120 ppm karo vodka diluted

thank you


Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: levanvan on September 13, 2021, 06:01:45 PM
Hi, guy.
I'm going to make 40, 100, 320 ppm with ( cinamon, malto ).
I'm not good in english , so can you give me some guide. ( I have done 20 ppm with karo, and the result is well ).
Thanks.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on October 08, 2021, 03:29:58 AM
Hi guys, i have a question, are we allow to stir the gelatine when heating it before electrolysis process ?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on October 08, 2021, 03:43:44 AM
Hi guys, i have a question, are we allow to stir the gelatine when heating it before electrolysis process ?
Yes..  You should.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Boki on October 08, 2021, 08:48:52 PM
Hi everyone, I am new here because I need help. I bought until now 4 colloidal silver generators and only one could produce what I need. But that one is technically weak and it breaks easily. For my health issues I need a good colloidal silver generator that can produce clear, minimum 30 ppm ionic water, measured by the TDS measuring device. There is no need to tell me that TDS device isn’t measuring right because I know what helps me and what doesn’t help me. I live in Europe where we have 220V current. Therefore maybe a device with batteries would be an answer to my needs. Making my own ionic silver generator isn’t an option because I am not a man and I am not technical at all. Can someone recommend me a device from the internet or some other source. Thank you for reading.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on October 09, 2021, 02:26:38 AM
thank you sir, i though we should not stir it as mr.Gene only stirred it with stick at the beginning, or maybe because he mention that he does not have a stirrer ( im sorry to mention you mr.Gene )
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Gene on October 16, 2021, 01:02:36 AM
Well, I never added the gelatine up front until very recently and doing so made a believer out of me.

Add the cold water to the jar, add the powdered gelatine (yeah this works) slowly and let it sit 5-10 minutes to bloom. Heat the jar/water in a pot filled with water heated to near boiling (poor mans double boiler), checking temp often.  When its up around 120F I give a stir.  When it hits 150F I take it out of the pot, dry off the jar, put it on the hotplate, give it another stir, add the reducer and electrolyte, stir again, put the electrode assembly onto the jar, set the voltage and current and start production.  VERY simple.

When you add the gelatin to the cold water, it will sit on the surface, mostly but look wet and it will bloom over that 5-10 minutes.  When you heat it, when its getting up around 120F it will start sinking and look like its starting to dissolve.  Stirring at this point seems to help but don't expect all of it to go into solution (melt) until it gets a bit hotter.  By the point it hits 150F and you've stopped heating it and put it on the hot plate and stirred again, it should have all dissolved and you should have a very clear solution.  If not, give it a few more minutes and stir again and don't move forward to production setup until you have a clear solution where all the gelatine is dissolved.

I've done it this way for 4 or 5 times already and have gotten the same perfect results every time.  The Colloidal Silver comes out crystal clear - just dark (I make 120PPM) - much clearer than I used to get for sprinkling the dry gelatine powder on the surface of the hot/finished product slowly until it sinks where I used to let it sit about 10 minutes to bloom/dissolve and then stir.  I won't do it that way anymore. Adding it at the beginning absolutely creates a clearer/better product.

I read here recently that adding the gelatine at the beginning of the run causes the majority of the particles of silver produced to be around 10nm in size which is about the best you could hope for. I'm a believer!

Oh yeah, I do use a wooden chopstick to stir even when I choose to stir the cell during a run (if I'm seeing too many bubbles forming around the anode or even on the inside wall of the jar a stir for 10 seconds usually causes most of them to let go).  I like it because its thin so it doesn't get in the way and also because its not "cold" so there's no possibility when you stick it into the cell that you will have gelatine sticking to it for the cooling effect if it were some other material.  I'm sure something plastic would work also but metal would be cold and then if you've got the cell running you don't want to stick anything else metal into the water as it would form a 3rd electrode and perhaps cause issues.

There, like everything in this world, is no "perfect" way to do it - just a whole lot of good ways and you have to find which one works best for you and stick to doing it that way.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: dimoune on October 17, 2021, 09:38:34 PM
Hi,

I produced regularly 360 to 400 ppm Colloidal Silver. Last time I diluted some to 20 ppm and left a small quantity in the glass. After a few days the Colloidal Silver was evaporated and it left a yellow tinge to the glass. Is it normal for the Colloidal Silver to tinge the glass? I don't seem to have this glass coloration if I cold produce 20 ppm.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Gene on October 18, 2021, 09:43:24 PM
If you're making high PPM I'm thinking you're gel-capping, right? Where you aren't when making 20PPM, right?

Perhaps the gelatine is doing it because the silver particles are coated with the gelatine where they too are then sticking to the glass for evaporating the water.

Just a thought.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on October 18, 2021, 10:55:51 PM
Quote
Just a thought.
And its a good thought.
I think peroxide will remove it if regular soap does not.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Gene on October 19, 2021, 12:08:45 AM
What I've found, for removing gelatine from the inside of a container is to fill it with water, put it in the microwave, heat it until the water/jar is almost too hot to touch, then take it out and let it sit about 10 minutes, run a brush down the insides and around (I have a long handled flask brush that gives me a bit more control though any brush you can get down inside the container should work), dump the water out, add a little dish detergent and brush again and 99% of the time (at least for me), all the gelatine with whatever its trapping within it, leaves. Then just rinse a couple times, shake out as much water as you can and rinse a couple times with distilled (just an ounce or two each time, cap it, shake vigorously, dump out, to get all the tap water out.

Yeah, for a last ditch effort, H2O2 but I seem to have better results with the above.  Sure, for getting rid of a silver buildup inside the container, H2O2 works wonderfully.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: dimoune on October 19, 2021, 06:43:06 AM
If you're making high PPM I'm thinking you're gel-capping, right? Where you aren't when making 20PPM, right?

Perhaps the gelatine is doing it because the silver particles are coated with the gelatine where they too are then sticking to the glass for evaporating the water.

Just a thought.

You are right. I gel-capped the high ppm. When I produce regular 20 ppm, I don't use gelatine and don't observe the yellow coloration also. Thank you for pointing to the gelatine causing this yellow tinge.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Gene on October 19, 2021, 11:05:47 PM
The gelatine will impart a faint color but as you can see, gelatine dissolved in water is pretty clear.  What you're seeing, mostly, are the colloidal silver particles the gelatine coats giving the dried film that darker sort of "apple juice" color.  The gelatine causes light defraction which makes the silver particles look darker than they would made without the gelatine.

Even when you gel cap during manufacture, as it cools in the container, you get the same film on the inside of the container though it may not be nearly as pronounced as evaporating Colloidal Silver in a glass.

That washing technique, from playing around, that I outlined earlier, at least for me seems to be the simplest way to go.  To cause gelatine to bloom from a dried film seems to require hot water and time. Actually cleaning it out after a waiting period goes very quickly.

Of course with a glass you can use a scrubbie sponge which might do it but with something like a mason jar, thats rather problematic because you can't get your hand down inside the jar to hold the sponge and press it against the inside of the jar.

Glad to have helped you solve your issue.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on October 20, 2021, 12:51:49 AM
The most important thing to take away from this is that the film is still yellow after evaporating the water.  The shows just how good gelatin is as a stabilizer.  As the water evaporated, the ppm of silver increased until there was no water left but still the silver particles did not agglomerate.  I did a similar experiment a long time ago by dipping a strip of paper towel in some 320 ppm silver and then left it dry to see if it changed color.  It did not, so I knew that gelatin was a very strong stabilizer.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on October 21, 2021, 02:42:02 AM
hi
i regularly made 140 ppm now but i added 5 grams of gelatine and 5 grams maltodextrin, result is like this picture below
it seems too dark for me for 140 ppm
i added more reducing agent and stabilizer because im not using knox brand so i did not sure about the quality
the small beaker was diluted 1:6 from 140 ppm
the photo with 1000 ml beaker taken inside and outside
please advice
thank
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on October 21, 2021, 03:41:02 AM
The small beaker looks correct for gelatin stabilized 20ppm Colloidal Silver diluted from your 140 ppm  run.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on October 21, 2021, 12:10:16 PM
thanks
but if we compare with 20 ppm made without diluting its more amber/darker right ?

20 ppm cold process has light yellow colour diluted one darker
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on October 21, 2021, 12:33:03 PM
As has been explained multiple times here, the gelatine itself is not completely colorless so it adds to the color you see.  Also. the weight of the gelatin on the nanoparticle slows down its vibration which shifts the color slightly.  It is natural and correct.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on October 22, 2021, 01:06:13 AM
ok thank you
i have another question, after each electrolysis process , i fire cleaned my anode and it has green flame on surface and edges
it only appeared few seconds, so i fired it until it completely dissapeared, since it only appeared after electrolysis process,
did it happen because of the reducing agent or gelatine sticked to it? for your information i only firecleaned after process because i only use 7.5 mA current which took me 4 hours 40 minutes
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: cfnisbet on October 22, 2021, 09:32:34 AM
Chemicals from the bulk liquid. Don't be concerned about it.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on October 22, 2021, 12:02:45 PM
yeah just worry about silver impurity because copper has green flame but i used 99.95 granules and it should not be a problem
maybe just a little borax during proccess of melting and pour into the mold
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Gene on October 23, 2021, 04:16:55 AM
For 1 liter of 140PPM, 5g of gelatine is several times more than you need.

The formula is

PPM * 1000 / 160  to 2x that amount

for 140PPM, 1 liter, it would be 0.875g - 1.75g

The formula for maltodextrin is

PPM * <liters> * 14.194

for 140PPM, 1 liter, thats just about 2 grams, not 5.

while in both cases more gelatine and more malto won't hurt, 2.9x more gelatine (than the 2x amount) is a LOT and likewise, 2.5x more malto too.

The formula for malto is for mixed bag (non-DE numbered meaning it will work for any grade or any mix) so you don't have to go "rambo" on the malto (wink).  I usually just bump it up by 20-30% (not 250%) and call it even and its perfect every time (I make 120PPM routinely).  As was said, for having a little excess reducer, it speeds up reduction for silver oxide dissolving in water being closer to the next available reducer molecule.  That makes sense to you, right?

The formula for gelatine, I use the lower number and bump that up maybe 20-30%, not 290% like you.  I believe when Kephra makes 320PPM, he uses the higher number.

Its a matter of personal choice..

You're getting good results but perhaps try a SMALL batch with numbers more in line with the formulas and see how it goes.  What you're doing isn't going to hurt anything but it sure seems excessive to me.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on October 25, 2021, 12:29:33 AM
yup, i purposely did that because i dont know how beef gelatine works with the process, i stopped using knox because it contain non halal stuff and im worry my customer wont buy it when im producing it , maltodextrin i agree its too excessive, im gonna replace maltodextrin with cinnamon tincture soon, my last experiment with cinnamon tincture failed, it became cloudy after around 60 ppm, probably because i dont use ceylon cinnamon but local cassia type
i read that cassia wont thicken when we pour hot water but ceylon type does
my 2nd guess are probably i only soaked it 2 days in alcohol
hopefully anyone has experienced with cinnamon can assist me on this
thanks
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on November 02, 2021, 12:55:08 AM
anyone with cinnamon tincture experienced can help me?
any idea what is wrong with my cinnamon reduced ?

put 10 ml of cinnamon tincture to get 160 ppm ( maybe way too much )
always get slightly or more turbidity, using flash light to compare between malto gelcapped and cinnamon gel capped
always get turbid after 60 ppm if non gel capped only cinnamon reduced and capped

appreciate your help , thanks


Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on November 02, 2021, 05:46:48 AM
colloidal silver with cinnamon reduced is not as clear as using karo or malto as reducer?
did anyone has the same result ?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: cfnisbet on November 02, 2021, 09:22:01 AM
I think it varies; I find that the clearest results come from Cinnamon, followed by Maltodextrin. I seldom get good results with Karo.

Slavish adherence to the recipe is the best way to success, followed by really good distilled water. Experimentation is needed.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Gene on November 02, 2021, 06:57:19 PM
Curious.  I use 50:50 Karo all the time to make 120PPM gel-capped and it comes out crystal clear.  Even back when I was adding the gelatine after the run, the karo reduced "temporarily naked" (wink) 120PPM looked crystal clear - just got a little darker color after adding the gelatine but not nearly as clear as adding the gelatine at the beginning of the run which is what I do now exclusively.

Given the gelatine works as a very powerful stabilizer, I see no need to use maltodextrin to reduce with, especially now with the gelatine there at the beginning of the run where the silver particles are coated with it immediately after reduction (or at least in very short amount of time).

I use maltodextrin to make 80PPM "naked" and that comes out crystal clear also.

I've NEVER gotten anything but a cloudy output when using glucose and I recall others here reporting the same and none of us had any clue why.

Some day I'll revisit this to see if I can figure it out.  Glucose does reduce the fastest of any reducer I've ever used but since I process warm (150F), the reduction speed has never been an issue for me.

I've never used cinnamon extract to reduce with.  Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like cinnamon is more usually used for very high PPM's like 320 and I never go there. Plus, I've read that cinnamon extract imparts a slight cinnamon taste to the Colloidal Silver which would bother me but thats just me.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on November 02, 2021, 11:07:42 PM
I have tried using both ceylon and cassia cinnamon
15 gram soaked in 200ml pure grain alcohol for a week or more
I took and put 10 ml of it into 1000ml dw and run the process at 185F
The 240 ppm looked clear after i filtered it with cofffe paper but if i compare it with the malto+gelcapped it was hardly to see the different unless we shine a torch light and we could see a little bit greenish cloudy or light beam on cinnamon reduced,
Probably a cinnamon extract will give more tyndall effect because it  liquid contents?

I never used karo because its too expensive here, so i used korean corn syrup but for me for now  bloom 250 beef gelatine and maltodextrin has the best clearliness although it has darker colour at 20 ppm diluted solution

https://youtu.be/thpFpBMXgGU
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on November 02, 2021, 11:24:57 PM
Quote
15 gram soaked in 200ml pure grain alcohol for a week or more
Why did you use pure grain alcohol?  You are missing the water soluble polyphenols in the cinnamon.
Maybe you should make a new batch using 50/50 water/alcohol to extract the phenols and try that.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on November 02, 2021, 11:45:54 PM
I choose pga because of this information

Ethanol, or ethyl alcohol, is the only type of alcohol that you can drink without seriously harming yourself, and then only if it hasn't been denatured or doesn't contain toxic impurities. Ethanol is sometimes called grain alcohol because it is the main type of alcohol produced by grain fermentation

 i tried using local vodka which is made from rice fermentation, maybe i used wrong alcohol type?

How to make cinnamon tincture with water ? Same principle with vodka or boiled it ?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: cfnisbet on November 03, 2021, 07:49:44 AM
I would use normal vodka.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: SaltyCornflakes on November 03, 2021, 09:55:20 AM
Interesting re: water soluble stuff. I have always used 70% spirits, hope that's good enough to cover both bases. Certainly the cinnamon tincture has worked well.

You could try leaving cinnamon cooking in DW for a while, then filter and use that. I have thought about it. But as we know from chemistry, there are different extraction methods for different parts and using just water, you may predominantly get the water-soluble part. Which may still work as a reducer. I don't know.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on November 03, 2021, 02:20:19 PM
I just finished using water and cinnamon
boiled it and filtered it using coffee paper
The result looked clear but i cant get rid of the green cloud/turbid under strong torch light
too much cinnamon might cause this ?
1st picture without torch light
2nd under torch light

20 ppm diluted from 120 ppm
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on November 13, 2021, 11:19:05 AM
Quote
15 gram soaked in 200ml pure grain alcohol for a week or more
Why did you use pure grain alcohol?  You are missing the water soluble polyphenols in the cinnamon.
Maybe you should make a new batch using 50/50 water/alcohol to extract the phenols and try that.

I missunderstood this, so you were saying that i shouldnt use 99 percent , its too high better use 50/50 water/alcohol and make a new batch
Its not the PGA problem but the concentration of alcohol right?
I though its the PGA problem

Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on November 13, 2021, 12:03:43 PM
You should use a mixture of alcohol and water so you get all of the phenols you can out of the cinnamon.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on November 13, 2021, 12:07:48 PM
Do not use half vodka and half water.  Vodka is already a mixture of alcohol and water.  If you read the instructions I gave for making cinnamon extract, you would see that I said to us vodka and nothing else.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on November 13, 2021, 12:32:10 PM
Yupz when you said 50/50 water and alcohol i read it in a wrong way, im sorry. I thought i should not use PGA because PGA is a different type of alchohol. That makes me confused but i understand now
Its because the pure grain alcohol is 99% so i need to add water to make it 50 percent alcohol concentration
If using vodka we can use it directly, no need to add more water
I got it now
Thank you
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Gene on November 13, 2021, 10:05:05 PM
Be careful you're not confusing "proof", which is the standard "unit" used to indicate the alcohol content of alcoholic beverages (at least in the US for sure) with percent alcohol.

1 proof is 0.5% alcohol so for most alcoholic beverages sold (at least in the US), the proof is usually around 70, so 35% alcohol.

The azeotropic ratio for ethyl alcohol is 95%. You CANNOT make anything purer without jumping through hoops, using chemicals/processes to break the azeotrope to get closer to 100%,... which, for so doing, may render the resulting alcohol toxic.  You would have to very carefully read all the literature for the 99% ethyl alcohol you have, assuming it is 99% and not 99 proof, to ascertain if it is certified for human consumption and if not, I would seriously recommend against using it.

Regardless how many times you distill grain alcohol, the best you're going to get is 95% alcohol/5% water (190 proof).
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: indocomp on November 15, 2021, 07:08:16 AM
I bought pga which is food grade for alcoholic drink and food use
Its 96% on their label, i think it should be safe
Thank you guys for the information
I just ordered ceylon cinnamon powder from druera just to have more confident about the quality
And i also bought smirnoff vodka made from multiple grains
Hopefully it will work without any problem
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Kaio on April 20, 2022, 10:09:30 PM
Does anyone know if it's okay to store hot colloidal silver in those plastic gallons that come with distilled water?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Josie29 on April 21, 2022, 12:17:09 AM
Kaio:

"Hot" colloidal silver? Never a good idea to put hot liquids into those plastic containers.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Kaio on July 18, 2022, 08:04:59 PM
Kephra I have some permanent itching on my face. If I apply colloidal or ionic silver, is there a danger that the sun will stain my face if I use it every day? And on other parts of the body, is it okay to spray every day?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Gene on July 18, 2022, 08:45:13 PM
Colloidal silver does NOT stain skin nor turn you blue.

That 'blue' condition is known as Argyria and is caused by ingesting IONIC silver (what you're making BEFORE its reduced). Once reduced its colloidal silver (assuming you've done it properly) and its basically inert in the body.

There have been reports of people using ionic silver on cuts and staining skin with it.  Colloidal silver works worlds better so why they're using IS I'm unsure. Colloidal Silver is maybe 25-30x more potent at disease fighting than ionic silver.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Kaio on July 18, 2022, 09:23:51 PM
Oh yes, I was in doubt because I saw several people commenting that applying Colloidal Silver spray and going out in the sun can damage the skin. It's not that false case of turning blue, but a local spot. So no problem?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Gene on July 19, 2022, 01:20:12 AM
AND thats the reason you ignore everyone outside of this forum who tells you things.  Big Pharma does NOT like us. We can make this stuff for pennies and have something their most expensive drugs can't do (like curing MRSA - drug resistant staff, colds, flu,...).

There is a tremendous amount of false information out there and then enter the groupies who take the false information and run with it thinking they know something no one else does and... it takes on a life of its own.

We've all seen plenty of it, the most clever being ones done by professional disinfo artists who talk a good game, lots of middle of the road but not bad information and then they slide in a couple powerful lies when you're not looking and blammo... Mission accomplished. And this is not only with Colloidal Silver. It applies to all areas of life. They're everywhere!

Don't NOT look around. "Discovery" is a very big part of everything in life. Just keep the noggin in forward as you do (wink) and ask questions here (for Colloidal Silver/colloidal gold related issues). We'll never steer you wrong.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: 1233Fire on July 22, 2022, 06:34:35 PM
I need directions for making 10 ppm solution to be taken internally. I have a stirring hot plate and a 30 volt 0-5 amp power supply and know how to use them. When capping with glycerin, do you still add 1ml electrolyte AND 2 drops of glucose per liter at the beginning of the process? I’m processing for the correct calculated time for 10 ppm.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on July 22, 2022, 08:26:16 PM
Electrolyte is always 1 ml of 1 molar sodium carbonate per liter.
MINIMUM Reducing agents are adjusted per milligrams of silver (ppm and quantity).
We do not cap with glycerin,  its gelatin.

Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Gene on July 22, 2022, 10:13:18 PM
You really should just go for 20PPM as thats simple to make - just that the cell run time, all things equal, is twice as long as for making 10PPM.

I'm curious why you think you should make 10PPM for ingestion.

We use Knox Clear Gelatine for the capping agent/stabilizer, NOT glycerine.  One single (I think its a 3 or 4 oz box - 3 or 4 1oz packets) will last you a LONG time for a few $$. Just keep it dry and cool (room temp) and it'll last a long time.

A single US ounce is a little more than 28 grams.  If you're gelcapping a liter of 20PPM, you'd need all of 0.125g - 0.25g of gelatine.  Its really very little.  Even if you're making a liter of 80PPM, its just 4 times that so a gram or less.  Like I said, the little box will last you a LONG time unless you're making bathtubs full of Colloidal Silver (wink).
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Kaio on July 24, 2022, 07:44:40 AM
I've been using Colloidal Silver for about 10 days as a spray on various parts of the body, and I noticed that I started having trouble sleeping, I get sleepy but I can't sleep. I've seen reports of people saying that they inhaled with Colloidal Silver and caused arrhythmia, that is, it messed with the heartbeat. In my case it's not inhalation, but could the fact that I've been using it a lot as a spray and for several consecutive days be causing something similar too, preventing me from falling asleep?

One note: the silver spray I'm using is 60ppm.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on July 24, 2022, 10:50:08 AM
Quote
I've seen reports of people saying that they inhaled with Colloidal Silver and caused arrhythmia,
Where did you read that?  I don't bellieve it for 1 microsecond.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: flamelnik on September 29, 2022, 11:19:00 PM
Hello, my name is Niko and its my first time making CSilver.
I started with 1 litre distiled water and i put 0,110gr sodium carbonate, i desolve 10ml of glucose syrup in 10ml distiled water, i count 55 drops to ful a teaspoon and I divided with 5 so i put 11 drops of desolved syrup. This is what happened. The first picture is at 6 minutes and 48 seconds. The second pic is at 10 minutes and i stoped there because the color was geting realy dark. The third pic is after some seconds i stoped and the last one is my TDS. Please tell me your opinion!! Is it good or i made it wrong?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on September 30, 2022, 12:12:26 AM
Hello, my name is Niko and its my first time making CSilver.
I started with 1 litre distiled water and i put 0,110gr sodium carbonate, i desolve 10ml of glucose syrup in 10ml distiled water, i count 55 drops to ful a teaspoon and I divided with 5 so i put 11 drops of desolved syrup. This is what happened. The first picture is at 6 minutes and 48 seconds. The second pic is at 10 minutes and i stoped there because the color was geting realy dark. The third pic is after some seconds i stoped and the last one is my TDS. Please tell me your opinion!! Is it good or i made it wrong?
1):  Your current is too high, you should be running no more than 5ma, not 70 (.07) with wire electodes.
2):  You should have a real current limiter between your power supply and your electrolysis cell.  At least measure the current with a separate meter.  You should also measure the voltage across the electodes.  The voltage should be at least 10 volts for an electrode spacing of 37mm,  Wider spacing requires more voltage.
3):  You cannot measure the ppm of Colloidal Silver with a TDS meter.  The TDS meter is only good for measuring the purity of your water.. It should be 0.
4):  Pure glucose is not a very good reducing agent and stabilizer.  You might try Golden syrup, or some other table syrup.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: flamelnik on October 03, 2022, 06:39:07 PM
I tried to build it as you wrote in the description but I can't get the mA up. In the first photo it shows me 0.01 and in the second it shows 0 and sometimes -0. What can I do?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on October 03, 2022, 06:44:58 PM
we need to see your wiring connections.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: flamelnik on October 03, 2022, 06:58:17 PM
yes of course
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: flamelnik on October 03, 2022, 09:52:48 PM
did I do anything wrong?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on October 03, 2022, 10:14:38 PM
From your photo, it looks like you have the meter hooked up to read cell voltage, but it also looks like the meter is on VAC.  Is that correct?
I don't know what current you are trying to get.  The meter on your power supply has only 2 significant digits, and power supplies like that are notorious for bad readings at low current.

Is there electrolyte in the water?  You won't get any current in just distilled water.

Connect your meter by hooking the plus from the power supply to the plus on the meter, then the negative meter lead to the anode, and the cathode to the power supply negative.  This is the setup for measure cell current.  Tell us the result.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: flamelnik on October 03, 2022, 11:11:46 PM
the meter is trying to read the mA, not the voltage. the power supply shows 27 volt and my meter was showing 0.037 (I dont know what that means).
i put 20 drops of carbonate soda (10.6gr in 100ml dw) and 13 drops of the syrup (10ml in 10ml dw). i did everything as you said it. is it wrong again?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Spencilver on October 03, 2022, 11:40:21 PM

Connect your meter by hooking the plus from the power supply to the plus on the meter, then the negative meter lead to the anode, and the cathode to the power supply negative.  This is the setup for measure cell current.  Tell us the result.
[/quote]

I am confused as well as to how to tie in the meter.
So you take the positive from the power supply and connect it to the positive on the meter. Then you take the negative from the meter to the anode and connect the negative power supply lead to the cathode?
How does the neg from the meter charge the anode?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Spencilver on October 04, 2022, 12:39:41 AM
Here’s a photo of the set up
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on October 04, 2022, 12:42:49 AM
You should set your power supply to 27 volts or so.
Adjust your cell voltage by raising the cathode.  Do not try to set cell voltage with you power supply.
Then, set up your meter to read cell current.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Spencilver on October 04, 2022, 12:53:15 AM
Yeah, thank you. After I took the photo I changed that. And brought the cathode out of the water more. The first photo is after 20 mins. And the second is after 1 hour and then adding 10 drops of karo/vodka reducing agent.

Trying to make a higher batch than 20 ppms. From your color guide this looks to be 40. I’m not sure though. Any thoughts out there?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on October 04, 2022, 12:56:35 PM
You measured your current, and time, so you should be able to tell me exactly what the ppm is.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: flamelnik on October 05, 2022, 06:47:13 AM
I put 500ml DW and i follow your directions exactly as you wrote it. 10 drops of carbonate soda, for 15 minutes with electrolysis on 5mA and 27V on the magnetic stirrer,  after that i remuve the wires, I turn on the heating to 50 degrees celcium I put 4 drops of the syrup for 17 minutes. This is the results. Can someone tell me if it was for too long or I made something wrong? I supose it must be a 80ppm Colloidal Silver. Correct?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: flamelnik on October 05, 2022, 07:05:12 AM
I am sorry about my english, i use the translator to read the information and everything here. Thank you for your understanding.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on October 05, 2022, 11:41:51 AM
Quote
I supose it must be a 80ppm Colloidal Silver. Correct?
No, it cannot be 80 ppm.
For a run of 5ma for 15 minutes in .5 liters of water, gives 10ppm.
Clearly what you made is more than 10ppm, so I conclude that you did not measure your current correctly.  You cannot go by what the power supply reads.  You must measure your current with an external meter.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: flamelnik on October 05, 2022, 04:45:21 PM
Ok, I'll be more careful next time. Thank you very much!!!
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: flamelnik on October 05, 2022, 04:51:47 PM
Ok, I'll be more careful next time. Thank you very much!!!
Normally how much time must i let it, either for 80 ppm or more?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on October 05, 2022, 05:15:36 PM
Time is computed from the current and water volume.
Time = ma/15 X ppm  X Liters (500ml = .5 liters)
Minutes = 15/ma X ppm X Liters.
Since I do not know your current, I could not possible tell  you the time.
Also, for ppm above 20, you should use maltodextrin instead of glucose syrup.
My advice... learn how to make 20ppm properly before going on to higher ppm.

Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Gene on October 05, 2022, 09:33:01 PM
Just so its said...

"time" for Faraday's law of electrolysis which is what Kephra stated above means MINUTES run time.

Yes, you have to learn how to crawl before you can walk. Learn to ace batches of 20PPM first because if you can't even do that, its counter-intuitive to try to go farther. One step at a time.

For non-gelcapped higher PPM's than 20, absolutely move to using maltodextrin.  Karo is not a good enough stabilizer for Colloidal Silver over 20PPM if its not gelcapped.

If you're gelcapping, Karo works fine up to the 160PPM I make (I haven't made higher PPM's so I can't say yes or no above 160PPM with any authority). The gelatine becomes the stabilizer.

Maybe others have different results but I haven't noticed any difference in quality of product between using Karo and maltodextrin for gel-capped 160PPM other than with malto, since the molecules are larger, the resulting Colloidal Silver color is a little bit darker (which is immaterial other than for knowing its normal for this to happen so you don't think something went wrong).

With higher PPM malto reduced, just take a little and dilute it back to 20PPM and THEN look at color. It'll be a slightly darker shade of yellow than with karo but only a little.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Spencilver on October 05, 2022, 11:27:21 PM
Thanks for the help Gene, as far as gel-capping goes, what is the recipe for that using 1 liter of DS water? Do you add more gelatin for higher ppms?

’’If you're gelcapping a liter of 20PPM, you'd need all of 0.125g - 0.25g of gelatine.  Its really very little.  Even if you're making a liter of 80PPM, its just 4 times that so a gram or less.  Like I said, the little box will last you a LONG time unless you're making bathtubs full of Colloidal Silver (wink).”
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: flamelnik on October 06, 2022, 05:05:20 PM
Time is computed from the current and water volume.
Time = ma/15 X ppm  X Liters (500ml = .5 liters)
Since I do not know your current, I could not possible tell  you the time.
Also, for ppm above 20, you should use maltodextrin instead of glucose syrup.
My advice... learn how to make 20ppm properly before going on to higher ppm.
I connect the voltage with my new meter and it is exactly as it wrotes, 27V. So, the current is 5mA in 1 litre DW for 20ppm = 100 minutes?
Is that correct?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on October 06, 2022, 05:30:43 PM

I connect the voltage with my new meter and it is exactly as it wrotes, 27V. So, the current is 5mA in 1 litre DW for 20ppm = 100 minutes?
Is that correct?
The voltage at your power supply is irrelevant at this point.
I asked you what the current (ma is when meter is connected between the positive power supply and the anode of your cell.
Your power supply should be set to current limit mode, if not set it that way.

As to your calculation, no that is not right.

I wrote the formula wrong, it should be T= 15/ma * 20 ppm X Liters== 60 minutes for 1 liter
15/5ma = 3  3X20ppm = 60

I seriously doubt you have 5ma.  Please measure it with your multimeter.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: flamelnik on October 06, 2022, 05:33:21 PM
I have send you personal message!!
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: flamelnik on October 06, 2022, 06:05:23 PM
I understand now, I don't know why I couldn't understand before.
Thank you very much!!!
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Gene on October 07, 2022, 08:56:48 AM
Here's a link to all the standard formulas you'll need:

https://www.cgcsforum.org/index.php?topic=47.msg47233#msg47233

Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Spencilver on October 24, 2022, 08:51:03 PM
Just wondering if it is normal for my copper wire cathode to lose its copper tone after a few uses? Should I be concerned and stop using or use away? I bought it online and it was 99.9 copper wire. Or listed as such.

Here is the latest batch I made with it.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on October 24, 2022, 10:07:39 PM
Just wondering if it is normal for my copper wire cathode to lose its copper tone after a few uses? Should I be concerned and stop using or use away? I bought it online and it was 99.9 copper wire. Or listed as such.

Here is the latest batch I made with it.
I will become slightly silver plated, and doesn't matter.  It doesn't even have to be copper.  It can be any metal.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Spencilver on October 24, 2022, 10:22:28 PM
Thank you!🙏
Title: my apologies in advance
Post by: nekkidwolf on August 07, 2023, 07:54:54 PM
i have read and reread articles many times and im still confused about everything in need to purchase in order to produce colloidal silver, any help is much appreciated. i don't know if it matters but i am located in the states. thank you in advance.
Title: Re: my apologies in advance
Post by: cfnisbet on August 07, 2023, 08:27:03 PM
i have read and reread articles many times and im still confused about everything in need to purchase in order to produce colloidal silver, any help is much appreciated. i don't know if it matters but i am located in the states. thank you in advance.
Start here:-

https://www.cgcsforum.org/index.php?topic=4965.0 (https://www.cgcsforum.org/index.php?topic=4965.0)
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: sneezewort on September 05, 2023, 09:58:57 PM
Kephra. I can't post, can't change my details.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: sneezewort on September 05, 2023, 10:05:20 PM
Sorry, seems OK now. Bit of a nightmare, earlier, told me to post in new members section.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: nekkidwolf on October 02, 2023, 01:48:47 AM
How will we know when we have aced making 20 ppm?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: SaltyCornflakes on October 02, 2023, 02:10:05 AM
By getting the right shade of yellow, with little turbidity when shining a light through it. It should also not taste bitter or metallic.