Author Topic: Zero Water filter oddity  (Read 2884 times)

Handyguy

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Zero Water filter oddity
« on: May 06, 2016, 01:44:49 PM »
I have been using this filter system for the past month or so, with success as filtered water goes. So two days ago, I'm brewing colloidal gold and the batch fails (all others up to that point were going well). I check the water with the TDS meter and it reads 000. So I dump the batch and filter another 500 ml of water. This time the TDS meter reads 001. So the gold process can detect TDS's before the meter can.

Moving on....

So I head off to Wallyworld and purchase another filter cartridge. I ran four batches from the new filter....all of which failed. So I'm thinking I got a bad filter. Back to Wallyworld, new filter....same thing. Now I'm pissed, but before tearing everything down, I thought, "I'll double filter the water". Success!! But why?
Here is the second anomaly. With the original filter, I only had to use two drops of electrolyte to raise the ph level...now I have to use three. Double filtering lowers initial ph?

The bright side to all of this; I'm becoming a better troubleshooter.

Offline kephra

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Re: Zero Water filter oddity
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2016, 01:57:05 PM »
You may be a better troubleshooter, but you are also jinxed!
There is the unknown and the unknowable.  It's a wise man who knows the difference.

Handyguy

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Re: Zero Water filter oddity
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2016, 02:46:43 PM »
You may be a better troubleshooter, but you are also jinxed!

I agree.

Offline RickinWI

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Re: Zero Water filter oddity
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2016, 04:46:55 PM »
There may be an explanation: Any filter has a break in period. I don't think your new filters were bad.  Just not broken in.
I know it's probably overkill but I Zero filter all of the DW I use for making colloidal silver.

Suggestions:
1. Use that filter for filtering only water that has very low TDS to start with.
2. When "breaking in" a new filter run about 10 gal through it. I ran the same gallon through it 5 times & then switched to different DW a couple more times. I saved all that break in DW for use as rinse DW.
3. The ion exchange beads inside the Zero shouldn't really dry out so I keep a little filtered DW in the pitcher in between uses. (Do not use that storage DW for making colloidal gold or Colloidal Silver) I pour that into a container while using filter & then put it back in after use. Just enough to cover the bottom 1" of the filter.
4. If it has been a while in between filter use then I run about 1 Liter through it & that becomes rinse DW.
5. Freshly filtered DW seems to be best (for what ever reason). Don't filter up 5 gallons ahead of time & assume it will be the same weeks later.

MY cheap TDS meters read 000 for EVERY Gallon of DW I have ever checked. That does not mean they are all equal. I think there are TDS meters you can buy that go to 2 decimal points beyond what the cheap meters do (000.26 PPM  TDS or whatever the REAL reading is).
BUT a meter like that probably costs $$$$.

There is another way you can check to see just how good a Gallon of 000 TDS DW really is. You can set up your colloidal silver cell & take a reading of how much current is flowing (with no EL, of course). It will be something like 0. 288 mA or whatever. (depends on the geometry of your cell & other factors)

A long time ago I checked 8 different brands of DW & I got readings that were 35% different, lowest to highest. All of these read 000 TDS on my cheap meters.  So 000 does not mean there is nothing in the DW. All it means is that our meter does not have fine enough incrementation to read what's in there.

Tell Walmart that I will give them $10 for each of those defective filters you returned  ;)
So many VARIABLES & so little TIME.

Handyguy

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Re: Zero Water filter oddity
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2016, 08:51:36 PM »
There may be an explanation: Any filter has a break in period. I don't think your new filters were bad.  Just not broken in.
I know it's probably overkill but I Zero filter all of the DW I use for making colloidal silver.

Suggestions:
1. Use that filter for filtering only water that has very low TDS to start with.
2. When "breaking in" a new filter run about 10 gal through it. I ran the same gallon through it 5 times & then switched to different DW a couple more times. I saved all that break in DW for use as rinse DW.
3. The ion exchange beads inside the Zero shouldn't really dry out so I keep a little filtered DW in the pitcher in between uses. (Do not use that storage DW for making colloidal gold or Colloidal Silver) I pour that into a container while using filter & then put it back in after use. Just enough to cover the bottom 1" of the filter.
4. If it has been a while in between filter use then I run about 1 Liter through it & that becomes rinse DW.
5. Freshly filtered DW seems to be best (for what ever reason). Don't filter up 5 gallons ahead of time & assume it will be the same weeks later.

MY cheap TDS meters read 000 for EVERY Gallon of DW I have ever checked. That does not mean they are all equal. I think there are TDS meters you can buy that go to 2 decimal points beyond what the cheap meters do (000.26 PPM  TDS or whatever the REAL reading is).
BUT a meter like that probably costs $$$$.

There is another way you can check to see just how good a Gallon of 000 TDS DW really is. You can set up your colloidal silver cell & take a reading of how much current is flowing (with no EL, of course). It will be something like 0. 288 mA or whatever. (depends on the geometry of your cell & other factors)

A long time ago I checked 8 different brands of DW & I got readings that were 35% different, lowest to highest. All of these read 000 TDS on my cheap meters.  So 000 does not mean there is nothing in the DW. All it means is that our meter does not have fine enough incrementation to read what's in there.

Tell Walmart that I will give them $10 for each of those defective filters you returned  ;)

I will come back to the issue of consistency. I ran a gallon of water (from RO source) thru the ZW system and all was good after that. Then I got the new filters and did the same thing...but nothing worked until I double filtered. Like Kephra said, I'm jinxed...but I'm also persistent.

Offline WayneInPHX

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Re: Zero Water filter oddity
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2016, 12:15:51 AM »
I think there are TDS meters you can buy that go to 2 decimal points beyond what the cheap meters do (000.26 PPM  TDS or whatever the REAL reading is).
BUT a meter like that probably costs $$$$.

HANNA PWT - $60
http://hannainst.com/products/testers/hi98308-pure-water-tester.html

Thats what I use.




I will come back to the issue of consistency. I ran a gallon of water (from RO source) thru the ZW system and all was good after that. Then I got the new filters and did the same thing...but nothing worked until I double filtered. Like Kephra said, I'm jinxed...but I'm also persistent.
Most of us don’t listen with the intent to understand.  We listen with the intent to reply.  -  From a TED Talk

"I've decided I'm not old. I'm 25 plus shipping & handling!"

Offline RickinWI

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Re: Zero Water filter oddity
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2016, 05:32:22 AM »
Wayne, Thanks for posting that. Can you give me an idea of what type of readings you get when you check various different brands of DW?  I am guessing they are all well under 2uS/cm3.  Probably all under 1.0 uS/cm. When I checked about 10 different brands they all read 000 PPM on my TDS meter but that does not mean that they were all equally good for making colloidal silver.  I then went through the PITA task of setting up my cell to measure the mA for each brand of DW. There was about a 40% variation from lowest (best) to highest (worst) from about 0.29 mA up to about 0.41 mA. While doing my test I had to make sure that nothing changed as far as geometry of the electrodes in my cell & the water level was the exact same, etc. Since doing this testing I have checked dozens more jugs of DW with just my cheap TDS meters & I have yet to find one that read anything other than 000 TDS.

I'm splitting hairs, but I believe that the best colloidal silver has to start with the purest possible DW. (By best I mean least amount of turbidity.)

It is my understanding that 001 PPM TDS = 2.0 uS/cm3.  That would mean that one increment on your meter is 1/20th the size of 001 PPM TDS.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2016, 05:40:42 AM by RickinWI »
So many VARIABLES & so little TIME.

Offline WayneInPHX

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Re: Zero Water filter oddity
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2016, 05:40:28 AM »
Wayne, Thanks for posting that. Can you give me an idea of what type of readings you get when you check various different brands of DW?

For me, Wal-mart water was 1.8 uS/cm and my distiller produces .5 uS/cm in one pass.



 I am guessing they are all well under 2uS/cm3.  Probably all under 1.0 uS/cm. When I checked about 10 different brands they all read 000 PPM on my TDS meter but that does not mean that they were all equally good for making colloidal silver.  I then went through the PITA task of setting up my cell to measure the mA for each brand of DW. There was about a 40% variation from lowest (best) to highest (worst) from about 0.29 mA up to about 0.41 mA. While doing my test I had to make sure that nothing changed as far as geometry of the electrodes in my cell & the water level was the exact same, etc.

I'm splitting hairs, but I believe that the best colloidal silver has to start with the purest possible DW. (By best I mean least amount of turbidity.)

It is my understanding that 001 PPM TDS = 2.0 uS/cm3.

1.8 uS = 1 ppm


  That would mean that one increment on your meter is 1/20th the size of 001 PPM TDS.
Most of us don’t listen with the intent to understand.  We listen with the intent to reply.  -  From a TED Talk

"I've decided I'm not old. I'm 25 plus shipping & handling!"

Offline RickinWI

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Re: Zero Water filter oddity
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2016, 05:51:19 AM »
Your distiller must do a great job then. Did you ever try double distilling & if so how much did that decrease the reading?

Was that 0.5 uS reading after running DW through your distiller or regular tap water?

Did you ever try making a batch of colloidal silver using 1.8 uS DW and another batch using 0.5 uS for comparison? If so, could you see the difference in turbidity when shining a strong flashlight through it?
So many VARIABLES & so little TIME.

Offline WayneInPHX

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Re: Zero Water filter oddity
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2016, 06:27:26 AM »
Your distiller must do a great job then.

Yup.  A good distiller will be a balance between water loss and low-vapor point blow-by.  You WANT the bad stuff that is being carried with the steam to vent and the better steam to condense and become your finish water.  THAT is the primary reason for multiple distilling. You lose a little more LOW-Vapor point bad stuff with each run.  MY cost is 32 CENTS per gallon.  That takes 5:20 in the summer. (I do it outside).  In the winter, it is 5:55 and done inside to add the heat and moisture to our home's air.

I use a "Megahome Countertop Water Distiller Stainless, Glass Collection" from Amazon.  I did a VERY extensive 1800+ word review of it.  my Amazon name is: waydavis

https://www.amazon.com/Megahome-Countertop-Distiller-Stainless-Collection/product-reviews/B000ANW7HQ/ref=cm_cr_getr_d_paging_btm_next_11?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=recent&pageNumber=11

Unless you use  a lot of DW, (I DO) it isn't cost effective to buy a distiller.   To get one better than mine you will need to drop about $600.  OUCH.

 Did you ever try double distilling

No.  With .5 uS/cm there is no need.

& if so how much did that decrease the reading?

Was that 0.5 uS reading after running DW through your distiller or regular tap water?

I pre-filter the water going into the distiller with a carbon block type of filter.  Watts Premier 10 inch GAC 560010 1/4 inch Final Filter.  I am fortunate as the factory is only about 11 miles from me. :-)



Did you ever try making a batch of colloidal silver using 1.8 uS DW and another batch using 0.5 uS for comparison?
Yes.

 If so, could you see the difference in turbidity when shining a strong flashlight through it? 

Not really.  BUT that's with water from where I live.  Yours may not turn out as well.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2016, 06:52:26 AM by WayneInPHX »
Most of us don’t listen with the intent to understand.  We listen with the intent to reply.  -  From a TED Talk

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Offline kephra

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Re: Zero Water filter oddity
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2016, 11:41:04 AM »
Quote
It is my understanding that 001 PPM TDS = 2.0 uS/cm3.  That would mean that one increment on your meter is 1/20th the size of 001 PPM TDS.
The usual conversion is 1 uS equals 0.64 ppm. 
There is the unknown and the unknowable.  It's a wise man who knows the difference.

Offline WayneInPHX

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Re: Zero Water filter oddity
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2016, 04:15:37 PM »
Most of us don’t listen with the intent to understand.  We listen with the intent to reply.  -  From a TED Talk

"I've decided I'm not old. I'm 25 plus shipping & handling!"