Author Topic: Why does my Colloidal Gold turn orange? how do i make it red?  (Read 15710 times)

valdor21

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Why does my Colloidal Gold turn orange? how do i make it red?
« on: September 25, 2013, 08:55:01 AM »
I make 1L using 
3.0 grams sodium citrate
0.6 grams sodium chloride
all my batches turn out orange
they sometimes start off a pinkish orange.
i stay around 36volt @ 200ma if i had more sodium i can increase the amps. i havetried 500 volts no difference or it turns the solution purple. I have only ever made 1 ruby red batch, but i haven't been able to replicate those results

why is red more desirable then orange? any help on getting a consistent red batch using this method would be appreciated i love how stable it is i have been able to store my solutions for over 3 months with no fall out at all. I actually never even heard of fall out til i started reading this forum tonight.

Offline kephra

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Re: Why does my Colloidal Gold turn orange? how do i make it red?
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2013, 04:02:28 PM »
It looks like you far too much citrate.  Look in Kephra's Notebook at the colloidal gold Quickstart formulas and try one of them.

Red is desirable because most of the research done with colloidal gold was performed with red colloidal gold.
The color of the colloidal gold is determined by the particle size.  Once upon a time I read a science paper which claimed that gold particles in the range of 7 nm was toxic, while larger particles were not.  Red gold particles are in the range of 15 to 30 nm.  Purple colloidal gold is particle sizes too large to be effective, but not toxic.
There is the unknown and the unknowable.  It's a wise man who knows the difference.

Offline mraluma415

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Re: Why does my Colloidal Gold turn orange? how do i make it red?
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2013, 05:05:02 PM »
It is possible sodium citrate is not the best reducing agent when used during electrolysis. Citrate was originally used for the chemical method, called the Turkevich Method.  I think it would be best to use maltodextrin or cinnamon extract (alcohol based) as a reducing and capping agent with electrolysis.

because you are adding sodium chloride already to supply the chlorine to make the gold salt, adding 3.0 grams of sodium citrate is most certainly tainting the solution with way to much sodium.
"The art of healing comes from nature, not from the physician. Therefore the physician must start from nature, with an open mind." - Paracelsus

valdor21

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Re: Why does my Colloidal Gold turn orange? how do i make it red?
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2013, 07:06:32 PM »
sorry i explained it wrong. 
i put 3 grams sodium citrate  into 100ml of water dissolve it and then use 20-25ml.
same with the salt i put .6 grams of salt into 100 ml of water  dissolve it and then use 60ml.

here are a few pictures of what it looks like once it cools down. but while its on the hotplate it becomes like a rich orange. then once it cools like a pinkish orange

valdor21

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Re: Why does my Colloidal Gold turn orange? how do i make it red?
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2013, 07:12:11 PM »
here are the pictures.

Offline mraluma415

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Re: Why does my Colloidal Gold turn orange? how do i make it red?
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2013, 07:25:33 PM »
It looks as though you could run it longer.  How long did you run your process for?
"The art of healing comes from nature, not from the physician. Therefore the physician must start from nature, with an open mind." - Paracelsus

valdor21

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Re: Why does my Colloidal Gold turn orange? how do i make it red?
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2013, 07:50:22 PM »
if i add sugar it will literally turn pinkish orange in minutes. if i don't add sugar it takes about a hour. and i have run it for a total of 4 hours with no color change once its looks like the pictures i have posted. after reading kephra's notes i think i found the problem i switched to sea salt. so now i'm going to switch back to morton salt and see my results.

valdor21

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Re: Why does my Colloidal Gold turn orange? how do i make it red?
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2013, 08:12:43 PM »
sorry i'm not use to posting on forums my formula information is wrong again.
3.0 gram dissolve in 200ml water, i add 20-25ml
0.6 gram dissolve in 200ml water , i add 60-65ml
1L DW
its correct this time

Offline mraluma415

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Re: Why does my Colloidal Gold turn orange? how do i make it red?
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2013, 07:29:23 PM »
Yes with sea salt you could be making any number of colloidal metals at the same time, since there are many different metal ions in the salt. You want to use sodium chloride so that you can get the specific chemical of chlorine from the salt compound to make gold chloride. Once the gold chloride starts to form during electrolysis, your reducing agents should begin to reduce the gold salt into the desirable particle size and color. 

It is vital that you read Kephras notes until you understand the process completely, while also making sure not to substitute any factors unless the directions advise you to do so. This way it will be easier to help you when you run into a problem.

Keep us posted on your results!
"The art of healing comes from nature, not from the physician. Therefore the physician must start from nature, with an open mind." - Paracelsus

valdor21

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Re: Why does my Colloidal Gold turn orange? how do i make it red?
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2013, 09:52:55 PM »
I've made two failed batches since. the first batch i just used sodium citrate and regular morton salt and it was a success but it took about 2 hours plus to even start turning pink. so as it was started to turn a nice dark pinkish red i decided to do a experiment and i added 4 grams of sugar.  at that point it started to turn a bright orange within a few minutes.  my second batch i tried the morton salt, sodium citrate, and 4 grams of sugar from the very beginning. it turned a beautiful pink then bright orange again.

so after those two batches i realized i just putting too much sugar in i reduced my sugar to 2 grams and since then i have made 3 perfect dark red batches.

observations i have made spinning my stirrer at slower speeds is very important as well.

so as of now my formula is:
0.4 g sodium citrate
0.4 g sodium chloride
2.0 g sugar

36 volts .350ma but i find around 20 volts 200 ma to work quicker with no plating on the cathode at all.  i am currently alternating between those 2 voltages to see which one gives me the quicker batch.
takes about 1 hour to become a nice dark red.

i also ordered some carbo gain,  but i won't have that til next week


this batch is still going but as you can see it looks a lot better.

valdor21

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Re: Why does my Colloidal Gold turn orange? how do i make it red?
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2013, 09:54:39 PM »
here are the picutres

valdor21

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Re: Why does my Colloidal Gold turn orange? how do i make it red?
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2013, 10:04:02 PM »
now i am just going to keep reducing the amount of sugar to see what happens with the color. i'll keep you posted.

Offline kephra

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Re: Why does my Colloidal Gold turn orange? how do i make it red?
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2013, 10:21:35 PM »
...

so after those two batches i realized i just putting too much sugar in i reduced my sugar to 2 grams and since then i have made 3 perfect dark red batches.

It is important which kind of sugar to use.  Regular table sugar isn't good, you should use invert sugar, glucose, or corn syrup.  It doesn't take very much, a few drops of light corn syrup or invert sugar is probably enough.

Also, when electrolysing gold, its best to have a very large cathode, and a very small gold anode.  This is backwards to silver, but works best.  The anode should be just in the water, perhaps an 1/8 inch, or 2 to 3 millimeters.  You want a very high current per square millimeter of anode.
There is the unknown and the unknowable.  It's a wise man who knows the difference.

valdor21

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Re: Why does my Colloidal Gold turn orange? how do i make it red?
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2013, 11:37:11 PM »
have you tried organic evaporated cane juice? should i switch to inverted sugar? i have all the ingredients.

i use a 1 ounce copper cathode connected to a 40 gauge copper wire.

a gold anode on a 18 gauge wire connected to 2 1/20 gold coins.

i just set it up so the gold was half in and half out of the water with the last batch because i remembered that was the last time i had a really good result.

Offline mraluma415

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Re: Why does my Colloidal Gold turn orange? how do i make it red?
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2013, 12:37:11 AM »
now i am just going to keep reducing the amount of sugar to see what happens with the color. i'll keep you posted.

I have noticed in my experience with colloidal gold that the pH is very important during reaction. If you add too much sugar you will be adjusting the pH down towards the acidic spectrum. Ruby Red spheres with colloidal gold reactions desire a more alkaline pH of 7.5-9.0.  Unfortunately it is difficult to measure pH unless you have a special meter, but you can make a rudimentary guess as to what conditions you have created with your ingredients. The time at which you add your reducers and stabilizers may also play a vital role in how it reacts.
"The art of healing comes from nature, not from the physician. Therefore the physician must start from nature, with an open mind." - Paracelsus