Colloidal Silver and Gold Forum

Production Techniques and Chemistry => Colloidal Silver Production => Topic started by: kephra on September 04, 2017, 05:38:13 PM

Title: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on September 04, 2017, 05:38:13 PM
If you are having trouble with your process and seek help, please note the following.

1) Read the Articles.  The answer to almost all questions can be found there.
2) Supply details about your process.  Saying that something didn't work, without providing details is like saying "my car doesn't run, whats wrong with it"
3) Supply photos if possible so we can see your setup.
 
The more details you supply with your queries, the faster and better the responses will be.

Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: nix2p on September 04, 2017, 06:56:39 PM
If you are having trouble with your process and seek help, please note the following.

1) Read the Articles.  The answer to almost all questions can be found there.
2) Supply details about your process.  Saying that something didn't work, without providing details is like saying "my car doesn't run, whats wrong with it"
3) Supply photos if possible so we can see your setup.
 
The more details you supply with your queries, the faster and better the responses will be.

- I like that! Thank you Kep.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Rettan on December 15, 2017, 01:56:36 PM
I dont have any plateout on the cathode, but the anode gets very dark.

What product is it that builds up on the anode that makes it shades of grey and even total black if you let it go without cleaning for like 15 min. Also what happens if you dont clean it? Will silver still continue to be oxidized into the water? 
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on December 15, 2017, 02:33:23 PM
The black on the anode is undissolved silver oxides which is normal.  It does not prevent silver ions from entering the water, and does not affect the calibration.  The only thing to watch out for is the oxide flaking off into the water.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Rettan on December 15, 2017, 02:42:20 PM
I had an interesting experience with bought 10ppm ionic silver. I used this product instead of distilled/deionized water when i tried to produce high ppm Colloidal Silver. This is what happened:

I used 500 ml of said product, dissolved 1/2 tablespoon of gelatin in it. Then heated it with a double-boiler to like 80-85 degrees Celcius, I wanted closer to boiling point but couldnt without a lid, and a lid would have prevented the electrodes.

Then when it was dissolved I put in 53 mg of sodiumcarbonate (Using an accurate scale) and some glucose syrup (about the volume specified in your silvertron manual+ some extra for safety). I might have made a mistake here, because the gelatin wasnt fully dissolved yet when I added the sodiumcarbonate + glucose syrup, dont know if this matters.

Usually when i make 20 ppm ionic Colloidal Silver and then reduce it with glucose syrup the shift in color will begin already at maybe 40 degrees C, and then be complete at 50-55 C.

Since I had used my store bought 10ppm IS (which I have reduced as it is on earlier occasions just to check if it really was silver in it) I expected to see a color change in the interval of about 50 degrees C when i started heating the solution, (still hadnt put in the electrodes at this time).

Strangely I didnt see any difference in color at 60 degress C, so I put in more sodiumcarbonate (about another 53mg, thinking the pH was wrong), I also added some more syrup (about doubling that too), still nothing happening at 60 degrees.

Then when it reached 65-70+ degrees C, it started to change color fast, and it became much darker  (with a little reddish tint) than what the same product (10 ppm bought IS) had been when i reduced it without gelatin on earlier occasions, also without gelatin it turned light transparant yellow at about 50-55 degrees C.

I then continued at about 80-85 degrees C to put in the electrodes and had them going for 40 minutes at 15 volts and 15 mA (have bars for electrodes).

The solution now went very dark. But according to my brief calculations in my head, the solution should only be 80-90 ppm (due to the 10pp already in the IS from the beginning)

My question is:
Was it due to the gelatin that the product changed color at a much higher temperature, and then became very dark (a little reddish actually). Let me remind you, this was only 10ppm bought IS (which I have reduced from the bottle to make very light yellow colored product before) but it looked like 80 from the pictures I've seen here. So before I even put in the electrodes the solution already looked like a 80ppm (albeit a little more red) solution from this site. Could It be because the gelatin made the already formed 10 ppm IS to clump together making the colloids bigger and causing them to shift in color, to darker and more of a reddish tint?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on December 15, 2017, 03:06:25 PM
Quote
Could It be because the gelatin made the already formed 10 ppm IS to clump together making the colloids bigger and causing them to shift in color, to darker and more of a reddish tint?
No, gelatin will not make the 10 ppm clump or agglomerate.
Gelatin does have the effect of making the solution look darker though.  Lab testing shows that gelatin makes the particle size smaller, about 10nm.  It also greatly slows the reactions, so it takes a lot more time for the color to develop.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Rettan on December 15, 2017, 03:10:23 PM
Ok thank you :)
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Dean on December 16, 2017, 06:29:16 PM
Rettan,

Making up your gelatine ahead of time is not a bad thing in fact Kephra has a recipe for it in the articles but I have to say I haven't done it with IS. Only with 20ppm reduced. The point being, to have the "extra shelf life" for the gelatine solution because it's been made with colloidal silver and not just pre-mixed in distilled water. This is just a time saving routine though for when needing to cap an existing batch of "non-capped" silver. (for instance, some 40ppm karo reduced but then want to take it internally so would THEN cap it with my "stored" bottle of already made up gelatine). It sounds like you have made this as part of your initial production which seems "out of sync" with the usual processes described generally.

Then you have moved on to adding your sodium. I'm not sure this has any value or reduces your process time any.
The point of the sodium is to control the production of your IS and keep it consistent during the "creation" of it.
Remember it is there to raise the PH slightly, provide conductivity and stop the IS from plating to the cathode DURING the electrolysis.
I'm not sure that adding it after you already have your IS will benefit the process or the final product. (Unless I've misunderstood your process)

Regarding heat, I now actively look to keep heat to below 40 c for all but my 320ppm batches (where I let it steadily rise from 30 degrees to a final temp of about 75 - 80 degrees. and ALWAYS allow it to rise steadily from start to finish. This is 2-fold for me. 1, I don't get any significant evaporation right through the entire 5 hours or so of electrolysis and also, there is no significant "shock' going on where I have observed more turbid results when excessive heat is applied right off the bat. (Too much heat seems to allow reduction to happen almost too quickly!)

Also, if you are making 20ppm, you really don't need any heat at all. Once you're IS complete you can add your sugar and leave it be. The reduction will be slower granted but if time is not of the essence then this may yield a better result for you.
Heating will speed things up but you may find that your significant colour change is indicating a bigger particle (That orangey tint you describe)

Be mindful of due process and the tested methods that really do work. Experimenting is essential and power to you for "doing your own thing"
so my only real thoughts to help / contribute to your post are.....

Remember that doing things in a different order may mean that you prevent something else from happening when it should. If you stick to the solid foundation processes here you should always get a good batch.

Also, doing things out of step may end up making it hard to identify any real underlying issues that may be present.
(incorrectly mixed sodium was my nemesis at the start) By doing loads of things differently all at once, you'll find it much harder to trouble shoot.

Hope this helps


Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Rettan on December 17, 2017, 03:16:56 PM
Thank you for your reply. I didn't want to use preformed IS, it was just that I didnt have any distilled or deionized water available, so I used some 10 ppm IS I bought from the store.

I tried to follow the procedure layed out by kephra in his silvertron user manual. And I think i did so, if not for the use of store bought 10 ppm IS.

In the long post I made, I mistakenly might have made it sound like I heated the solution after I put in the gelatin to 85 degrees and then let it come down in temperature again only to add the sodiumcarbonate and syrup, this was just a mistake in writing the chronology. First I added the gelatin at room temperature 10ppm IS. Then when it has soaked in the solution for 5 mins, I turned up the heat to maybe 40 degrees, then when it started to dissolve I added the Sodiumcarbonate and syrup, then continued heating until 85 degrees, then put in the electrodes.


Also, I have read on this forum several times to dilute higher concentration solutions before ingesting. But I have not seen a reason for this? Is it dangerous to drink lets say a litre of 320 ppm colloidal silver in one drink? If it is, then why is it? Could it affect renal function at higher concentrations?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on December 17, 2017, 03:35:05 PM
Quote
Is it dangerous to drink lets say a litre of 320 ppm colloidal silver in one drink?
Yes, its dangerous.
1)  It has never been tested at such huge amounts.  Silver in high dosages can kill off immune cells.  Whatever else that could happen is unknown.

2)  Diluting it also dilutes the stomach acid.

3)  There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to take that much silver at one time.

Your question makes me think I made a mistake by introducing the world to making high ppm Colloidal Silver.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Rettan on December 17, 2017, 03:59:56 PM
Im sorry to hear that, well now I know.

I read in a thread that 1 litre of 20 ppm per day will give about ~3-5 ppm in the blood stream, and that amount will kill off most bacteria. But doesnt the body consist of roughly 60-65 % water? If you want 3-5 ppm in all compartments of the body you will need much more than 1 litre of 20 ppm in a day. For a 80 kg person, thats 50 litres of body water for the Colloidal Silver to mix with.

This is the reason I'm asking about ingesting high ppm Colloidal Silver.

Or should 1 litre of 20 ppm per day be ingested for a prolonged time to induce a steady state where the whole body will have 3-5 ppm after a sufficiant time has elapsed?

Im sorry I have let down your faith in humanity :)

But I am happy that I now have the information to make the decision not to drink 320 ppm Colloidal Silver.

Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Rettan on December 17, 2017, 04:14:34 PM
Sorry again, people should do their own research. I understand.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on December 17, 2017, 04:16:06 PM
You don't need silver in all the water in your body.  A lot of that water is inside healthy cells, and you certainly don't want silver inside healthy cells.  Pathogens spread around your body mostly with blood.  Thats where you need to put the silver.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Dean on December 17, 2017, 04:34:37 PM
Im sorry to hear that, well now I know.

I read in a thread that 1 litre of 20 ppm per day will give about ~3-5 ppm in the blood stream, and that amount will kill off most bacteria. But doesnt the body consist of roughly 60-65 % water? If you want 3-5 ppm in all compartments of the body you will need much more than 1 litre of 20 ppm in a day. For a 80 kg person, thats 50 litres of body water for the colloidal silver to mix with.

This is the reason I'm asking about ingesting high ppm colloidal silver.

Or should 1 litre of 20 ppm per day be ingested for a prolonged time to induce a steady state where the whole body will have 3-5 ppm after a sufficiant time has elapsed?

Im sorry I have let down your faith in humanity :)

But I am happy that I now have the information to make the decision not to drink 320 ppm colloidal silver.

Rettan,

Your'e doing a great job by being here in the first place so don't beat yourself up. Regarding dosing for silver, you're correct, silver needs to reach a concentration in the blood as you describe. Also consider that even with conventional medicine, no doctor prescribes a "massive dose" to get it into your system all in one go.

Silver is no different. Overloading just because you can is a too simplistic. and also remember that your blood is in "all compartments" of your body all the time (and gets round it in about 1 minute!) so building up over a few days is no different to any antibiotic you've ever taken.

Also consider that overloading is not going to "nuke" every pathogen straight away. There is incubation of pathogens to think about as well so a short, high does, will possibly not help you in the way way you are thinking.

The 320ppm is manyfold in it's reasoning but think of it mainly as a time, cost and space saver.
You need so little of it compared to lower ppm. That's it really. As a 70kg human being, you need just over 60ml of it PER DAY! added to a beverage or water or tea or juice. (split this into 4 x 15ml applications and you're done! That's a whole lot easier than drinking a litre of 20ppm or more to get similar doses.

The only time i-I've used 320ppm neat is when cleaning my dogs teeth (because , they lick it off immediately, and 2 I think of it as a strong reaction but more or less as an "external" use.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Bobby on December 18, 2017, 03:27:49 AM
  Having a supply of 320ppm available for emergency is a must.  320ppm Colloidal Silver is great because you can mix it with about anything to make that dose of 20ppm when needed.  It's a must have!
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Rettan on December 29, 2017, 01:23:06 PM
Thank you for your replies!

The reason I am asking is because I have neuroborreliosis, and the antibiotics prescribed does keep down the infection while Im on the medication, but as soon as I stop it comes back. And the antibiotics gives severe side-effects, especially to my kidneys. So I do not want to use them.

This brings me to my next question, does anyone know of any science or personal experience that can tell wether the colloidal silver passes across the blood-brain barrier? Also, since my learnings about high ppm colloidal silver from you guys, Im thinking instead of using something around 4 liters of 10 ppm colloidal silver per day. If we talk just about the amount of colloidal silver (and not the amount of distilled water), is it safe?

My sincere thanks
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on December 29, 2017, 01:31:36 PM
Silver Nanoparticles (and gold) definitely affect the blood brain barrier.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/51438890_Influence_of_Nanoparticles_on_Blood-Brain_Barrier_Permeability_and_Brain_Edema_Formation_in_Rats
Note the huge doses given to the test animals, 30 mg per kg of body weight.  This is a huge dose, so it is understandable that it could cause brain swelling.

Silver nanoparticles have been shown to greatly increase the effectiveness of conventional antibiotics.

4 liters of 10 ppm colloidal silver properly made would supply 40 mg of silver nanoparticles.  Most of us find that half that much is all that is needed.

Why do you make 10 ppm, instead of 20?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Rettan on December 29, 2017, 01:40:17 PM
I could make 20 ppm and then dilute it to 10 ppm yes.

The reason is this paper here:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28994738

I want the concentration to be as low as possible in the kidneys, and since I need less than 10 ppm to kill bacteria, I could just drink more of a lesser concentration. Thanks for the article, I will look it through!

Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on December 29, 2017, 02:09:12 PM
You misunderstand the difference between milligrams and ppm.
PPM is not relevant.  What is relevant is how many milligrams of silver you ingest.
4 liters of 10 ppm contains the exact same milligrams of silver as 2 liters of 20 ppm.  The only difference is in the amount of water.
Its milligrams of silver that does the job, not ppm. 
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Rettan on December 29, 2017, 08:41:13 PM
I know, I meant that i could make 2 liters of 20 ppm (which is 20 mg/liter since 1 liter of water weighs 1000000 mg hence 20 parts per million is 20 mg per 1000000 mg of water) and then dilute it to 4 liters of 10 ppm (which is 10 mg/liter), instead of having a container with 4 liters and make 10 ppm from the start, makes it easier since I dont have a 4 liter container. As i said, the reason I want lower concentration is because I want to minimize the risk for eventual renal problems (there probably is no risk but its just my personal preference to do it this way).

Sorry I dont want to come across as a smartass, but I dont want to come across as a fool either :)
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on December 29, 2017, 08:43:55 PM
Quote
As i said, the reason I want lower concentration is because I want to minimize the risk for eventual renal problems.
You don't have to dilute it to 10 ppm.  Just take half as much of 20 ppm and you will be getting the exact same amount of silver.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Rettan on December 29, 2017, 08:44:23 PM
The article you linked said that the nanoparticles cross the BBB, that is great news. Thanks alot Kephra!
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Rettan on December 29, 2017, 08:50:04 PM
Yes I know. But I want lower concentration in the kidneys, therefore I will try 4 liters per day. Depending on how much of a nuisance it will be I might do 2 liters of 20 ppm instead.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: onandoff on December 30, 2017, 03:38:31 AM
how much washing soda do you start with  when making 320ppm  I know its 1 table spoon into 3 oz of dw  how many drops do you add to start. I am more on vegan side so no gel in my mix
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on December 30, 2017, 11:23:39 AM
No matter what you are making, the amount of electrolyte is always the same..... 1ml per liter of water.  This is about 20 drops per liter.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Dean on December 30, 2017, 01:09:52 PM
how much washing soda do you start with  when making 320ppm  I know its 1 table spoon into 3 oz of dw  how many drops do you add to start. I am more on vegan side so no gel in my mix

Onandoff,

This is one area that messed me up at the start. Accuracy in mixing your electrolyte I found to be quite important. If you can, get hold of a precision scale. They are very inexpensive but allow you to measure with greater accuracy than a volume base.

Do you heap, don’t you heap? It all adds to inconsistency.
If you can lock down some things it’s fairly easy to troubleshoot any problems.

The reason Kephra mentions “about” 20 drops comes down to your dropper or syringe.
If it has a smaller or larger hole it may be 20 drops, it may be 18, it may be 25 but it should always be 1ml per litre. When you get to adding it to your water cell.

As long as you’ve accurately made your solution, and you accurately add 1ml to 1 litre then you’re good to go.
Remember it’s 10.6 grams of anhydrous sodium carbonate made UP to 100ml.
This gives you your 1 molar concentration.

Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: onandoff on December 31, 2017, 04:20:18 AM
Since karo is not vegan I am left to Cinnamon organic   5ml  in vodka  is it a capping agent . What alternative to gelatin .  As a capping agent is there. Any help would be great. Thank you Happy New year.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: cfnisbet on December 31, 2017, 07:15:18 AM
How is Karo not vegan? Am I missing something here?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on December 31, 2017, 12:24:39 PM
How is Karo not vegan? Am I missing something here?
Corn syrup is made from starch, and there are no animal based ingredients in it.  Its as vegan as broccoli :)
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: emanwols on December 31, 2017, 12:26:44 PM
Since karo is not vegan I am left to Cinnamon organic   5ml  in vodka  is it a capping agent . What alternative to gelatin .  As a capping agent is there. Any help would be great. Thank you Happy New year.
I remember reading a post by Kephra or another member that stated the only reliable Gelatin is animal based and that vegetarians or vegans are out of luck when it comes to producing stable 320ppm silver. I have never used vegetarian gelatin but i believe the general consensus is it is not effective for a stable product. It is possible that vegetarian gelatin is good for lower ppm silver--- may be 20-40ppm i am not sure.
Happy new year
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on December 31, 2017, 01:13:09 PM
Since karo is not vegan I am left to Cinnamon organic   5ml  in vodka  is it a capping agent . What alternative to gelatin .  As a capping agent is there. Any help would be great. Thank you Happy New year.
As I told you before; glucose, maltose, corn syrup, maltodextrin, cinnamon extract, and gelatin all cap silver.  Glucose is weakest, and gelatin is the strongest, because it is the largest molecule in the list.

Gelatin has the added advantage in that it resists stomach acids because protein digestion is mainly done in the small intestine.

Gelatin is protein.  Any pure protein should work provided it is water soluble, but no one on this forum has done any testing with any protein except gelatin.  Gelatin is the only pure, water soluble, and commonly available source of protein I have found.  Perhaps you can find another.



Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Rettan on December 31, 2017, 05:06:02 PM
is there a thread which shows examples of turbidity?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on December 31, 2017, 06:08:19 PM
I don't think there is a thread about it, but look at this post:
https://www.cgcsforum.org/index.php?topic=1896.msg16522#msg16522
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Rettan on December 31, 2017, 07:12:15 PM
Thanks for the reply, but it says that that part of the site is off limits or missing for me :(
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on December 31, 2017, 07:32:08 PM
Try this topic:

https://www.cgcsforum.org/index.php?topic=2352.msg22587#msg22587

Also, I suggest this article:
https://www.cgcsforum.org/index.php?topic=3025.0
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Rettan on January 01, 2018, 08:09:56 PM
Thank you! Judging from those pictures the stuff Im making is very good :)

I was wondering about the brownish residue building up on the anode during hot gelatin colloidal silver production. Would that residue trap silver ions that are released from the anode, and wouldnt they "disappear" back to metallic Ag when I burn them with a gasburner (every 20 minutes or so), and therefore take away from the calculation on how much Ag+ is being released into the solution when calculating from how many mA-minutes you are using?

Here are some questions, thanks for your knowledge Kephra :)

Does the brown stuff trap silver ions?

When burned with a gasburner doesnt it take away from the calculation on how much Ag+ has been released into the solution?

At first when burning with a gasburner the brown residue quickly turns a little bluish in color, and then after a few more seconds with the burner it turns whitish. What has happened when it turns bluish? Do you have to make it whitish? Sometimes the blue doesnt become whitish but instead a little flakey. I guess my question is if any of these color states of the anode somehow inhibit good Colloidal Silver production.

Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on January 01, 2018, 08:31:29 PM
Silver ions trapped on the anode do not affect the time calculations since they carry no current to the cathode.
That brown stuff on the electrodes is mostly gelatin.
Colors like an oil slick on water, or bird feathers are caused by interference patterns between layers of the material.  It is not caused by different materials.  When it turns white, it is really silver, but the crystalline nature of the surface makes it appear white.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Rettan on January 01, 2018, 08:35:43 PM
Thats very good, I just noticed a few minutes ago when making a batch, that if I put the gasburner on there for like 40 sec eventually it would all become white. Earlier I have for the most part just burned it until it turns bluish. Does this matter?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on January 01, 2018, 08:49:47 PM
Doesn't really matter, it just means that you did not convert all the oxide back to metal.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Rettan on January 01, 2018, 08:53:29 PM
Great, youre the best Kephra :)
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: alex79 on January 04, 2018, 07:35:10 AM
I saw an old post about mixing 1gr gelatine with 250 ml of colloidal silver 20ppm(premixing).the batch will sit in the fridge and I'll use 1 tablespoon for the new batches.


1 tablespoon of premixing is enough for 20ppm new batch of what quantity?

if I want to capp an old batch of colloidal silver, I must heat the batch before adding the premixture gelatine?


if I do not want to use premixing, is 0.1-0.2gr of gelatin enough for capping 1L 20ppm colloidal silver?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Rettan on January 04, 2018, 10:39:47 AM
Is there a procedure for using citrate as a capping agent for home use?

The reason Im asking is because alot of the research articles uses it. What are the advantages compared to gelatin?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Dean on January 05, 2018, 08:13:34 AM
I believe the point in question is how "powerful" the capping agent is. When you start getting up to higher PPM's the strength of the capping agent is a factor and as Kephra has said, gelatine is the strongest of these especially when considering the protective reasoning that we use it. (hydrochloric acid through the gut).

And has also been noted, even your "reducing" agents are technically "capping" but at different levels so to speak.

Aaaahhhh The beauty of science!  ;D
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on January 06, 2018, 06:19:29 PM
Is there a procedure for using citrate as a capping agent for home use?

The reason Im asking is because alot of the research articles uses it. What are the advantages compared to gelatin?
You could probably use tri-sodium citrate as the electrolyte.  Make a 0.66M solution and use it like sodium carbonate.
This will have the same amount of sodium as 1M sodium carbonate.

I don't know of any advantages over gelatin.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: alex79 on January 17, 2018, 12:05:12 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUxXot_HDgE

can you tell if what is dissolving from the cathode in the solution is the sodium hydroxide?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on January 17, 2018, 12:41:42 PM
Its hydrogen gas.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: alex79 on January 19, 2018, 09:08:45 AM
thank you for the answer.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: alex79 on January 26, 2018, 11:35:36 AM
after reading about water ph in some posts i understand that i have a problem with my elctrolyte.every time i run a bach i struggle maintaning a good votage above 10v ,that because i use the amount of electrolyte 1ml /1l DW.The cathode is almost out maybe 5mm in the solution.from what i've read a good ph after putting the electrolyte is 8.5 but in my case starting with DW ph 6 and then putting the amount of elecrolyte needed ,my ph rises to 10.5.it's like my electrolyte is too concentrate.i made another bach of electrolyte with sodium carbonate 10.6 gr and DW to reach 100ml.also use another soda product when i made my sodium carbonate in the oven.same result ,it's like i used to much electrolyte.someone had this problem ?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on January 26, 2018, 01:14:55 PM
Don't trust your pH meter.  To get a pH of 10, you would need 200 times more sodium carbonate which is not possible. Trust your scale.

What is the size of your anode, the diameter of your cathode, and the spacing between your electrodes?


Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: alex79 on January 26, 2018, 01:21:59 PM
anode is 1oz bullion,cathode is silver wire gauge 10 and distance between electrodes 40mm.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on January 26, 2018, 01:25:22 PM
Use a smaller diameter cathode, like 12 or 14 gauge copper house wiring.
Also, you don't have to submerge the full anode.
But its normal to have only a small amount of cathode submerged.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: alex79 on January 26, 2018, 02:02:44 PM
ok, thank you.i'll change the cathode wire and I'll order ph paper .
Title: 320 ppm process
Post by: alex79 on February 23, 2018, 10:12:51 AM
hi, I produced my first batch of 320ppm colloidal silver  8) .I  have 4 questions.

1. shall I compensate the loss of water due to condensation from time to time in the process?

2. I don't see any residue on the bottom, do I need to filter it anyway?

3.after I dilute, should the solution be tasteless?

4. when I dilute 1 tablespoon(15ml) of 320ppm  in 250ml to obtain a 20ppm solution, can I use any water or I must dilute only in DW? ::)
Title: Re: 320 ppm process
Post by: kephra on February 23, 2018, 11:58:37 AM
hi, I produced my first batch of 320ppm colloidal silver  8) .I  have 4 questions.

1. shall I compensate the loss of water due to condensation from time to time in the process?
Yes, but if your Colloidal Silver is covered while hot you should not lose too much water.  I top mine off at the end.
Quote
2. I don't see any residue on the bottom, do I need to filter it anyway?
Not if you don't want to.
Quote
3.after I dilute, should the solution be tasteless?
It should not taste metallic.  I can't taste anything in mine.
Quote
4. when I dilute 1 tablespoon(15ml) of 320ppm  in 250ml to obtain a 20ppm solution, can I use any water or I must dilute only in DW? ::)
No, you can use any drinkable water to dilute with the exception of heavily chlorinated water.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: alex79 on February 23, 2018, 10:06:22 PM
thank you for your time and patience.so happy with my achievement 8)
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Dean on February 24, 2018, 05:39:10 PM
Alex,

When I make 320 I start electrolysis at about 30 degrees C. Then I allow it to steadily rise getting to between 75 - 80 degrees ONLY BY THE END OF THE RUN!.

I make 1 litre batches always so i'm in for about 5 hrs. 20 minutes at 15ma.
The expansion as it starts to heat sees volume increase beyond the 1 litre mark and I have full coverage of the 1 litre beaker with a lid (breather hole in the centre only.)

I have NEVER ended up with less than 1 litre by the end! try gentle increasing of heat rather than wacking the cell straight in at high temp. It really doesn't need it. As long you are above the solubility limit and you're reducing and electrolyte is accurate you should sail through the batch.

It never tastes metallic.

I do filter but in truth, if you are diligent and careful with anode / cathode cleaning during the run, you shouldn't get any residue.

As Kephra says, any drinkable water AFTER production is fine. I put it in tea, coffee, orange juice, distilled water, filtered water..........

Well done on the run!
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Neofizz on February 26, 2018, 05:23:02 PM
A while back I was with a friend talking about the 320 ppm colloidal silver while we were diluting it into our drinks. I had lemonade with some lemon slices lurking around the bottom of the glass. Around the lemon slices where the acid levels would be greatest the colloidal sliver solution (diluted to 20 ppm) started to turn red on me.

So, even though the 320 ppm could be diluted into almost anything, I learned that day to not use something that is too extremely acidic like strong lemon juice.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: emanwols on February 27, 2018, 12:53:58 PM
Hello Neofizz
i do not understand why if gelatin capped colloidal silver can or should withstand stomach acids it cannot withstand lemon juice for a few minutes.
Also i would like the views from all forum members as to why they think my 320ppm colloidal silver has a  slighlty bitter taste  when i use it neat( without dilution) as a mouthwash just for gargling after brushing. I must add that i brew all my Colloidal Silver with what used to be 7 guage silver rods at 48mA and i do not have any debris on the bottom of my flasks when production is done.
Thanks
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on February 27, 2018, 01:26:53 PM
Gelatin holds particles in suspension.  So you might be making a lot of silver oxide particles and not seeing it because of the gelatin holding it in suspension.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Neofizz on February 28, 2018, 01:16:26 AM
Hello Neofizz
i do not understand why if gelatin capped colloidal silver can or should withstand stomach acids it cannot withstand lemon juice for a few minutes.

This took more than a few minutes to happen. It was a large glass and took the better part of an hour to consume. It was about at the half hour point that I noticed the colour change occurring at the sliced areas of the lemon wedges at the bottom of the glass. I was considering with the lemon wedges being where the acid strength would be greatest, that it was the cause of the colour change I was seeing. This is just my observation.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: emanwols on February 28, 2018, 01:32:38 AM
Gelatin holds particles in suspension.  So you might be making a lot of silver oxide particles and not seeing it because of the gelatin holding it in suspension.
When i dilute the 320ppm Colloidal Silver just to check for turbidity and colour everything seems fine. but since i do not drink it do you think that it is still effective as a mouthwash even with the silver oxide particles?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: emanwols on February 28, 2018, 01:36:32 AM
Hello Neofizz
i do not understand why if gelatin capped colloidal silver can or should withstand stomach acids it cannot withstand lemon juice for a few minutes.

This took more than a few minutes to happen. It was a large glass and took the better part of an hour to consume. It was about at the half hour point that I noticed the colour change occurring at the sliced areas of the lemon wedges at the bottom of the glass. I was considering with the lemon wedges being where the acid strength would be greatest, that it was the cause of the colour change I was seeing. This is just my observation.
Fair enough. I assume that our Colloidal Silver will make it out of the stomach into intestines long before acids affect it
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on February 28, 2018, 01:42:54 AM
Quote
do you think that it is still effective as a mouthwash even with the silver oxide particles
Yes.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: alex79 on March 05, 2018, 02:44:05 PM
Alex,

When I make 320 I start electrolysis at about 30 degrees C. Then I allow it to steadily rise getting to between 75 - 80 degrees ONLY BY THE END OF THE RUN!.

I make 1 litre batches always so i'm in for about 5 hrs. 20 minutes at 15ma.
The expansion as it starts to heat sees volume increase beyond the 1 litre mark and I have full coverage of the 1 litre beaker with a lid (breather hole in the centre only.)

I have NEVER ended up with less than 1 litre by the end! try gentle increasing of heat rather than wacking the cell straight in at high temp. It really doesn't need it. As long you are above the solubility limit and you're reducing and electrolyte is accurate you should sail through the batch.

It never tastes metallic.

I do filter but in truth, if you are diligent and careful with anode / cathode cleaning during the run, you shouldn't get any residue.

As Kephra says, any drinkable water AFTER production is fine. I put it in tea, coffee, orange juice, distilled water, filtered water..........

Well done on the run!

thanks for the answer dean.i've cleaned my electrodes every 30 min, also no residue on the bottom.the weird taste was from diluting with RO water.it was from RO water because after that I've diluted 15 ml in 250 distilled water and was tasteless  ;D
I must build a lid to stop losing water because of the condensation and I'll start the process earlier, from a lower temp.
maybe is better to dilute in distilled water if you don't drink it the same day, I think diluting in tea, or juice or something else and store it for a long period of time is bad.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Dean on March 05, 2018, 06:56:14 PM
Alex,

I would only add the silver to a drink when needed. Keep it in it's own vessel until you need it.
If you make a lid, make sure you use something that will not leach anything into the cell during production.

The lid that Kephra provides with the Silverton is made from antibacterial food cutting board (you know the white ones).

I made one from a sugar jar lid that was made from wood at the beginning because it fitted my 1 litre beaker.
It used to sweat which brought contamination into the cell as it dripped in over time.

So whatever you do, use something like the food board and cut to size and accurately drill to 1. 5" (38mm) centres for your electrodes.

Good Luck!

Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: alex79 on March 06, 2018, 04:28:34 PM
thanks.i'll use polypropylene for the lid.
Title: 40 ppm turbidity problem
Post by: alex79 on March 16, 2018, 10:56:25 AM
hi, after making a lot of 20ppm and also 320 ppm with success, today I mess up something with my first 40ppm process.
I heated 2L of DW 001ppm  to 50degres C  then put 36 drops electrolyte (18 drops is 1ml for my dropper)and 20 drops 50/50 reducing agent.current was 10mA.started the process and the water temp rise slowly with the process until 70 degrees C.cleaned up the electrodes every 30 min.something strange was when I pull out the electrodes for cleaning with the torch I saw something  like greenish moisture on the anode .from what I've read,  a lot of people here don't heat so much,  maybe 50 degrees is enough?what do you think, where I've mess up things? :o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhW6ku9BFDM&feature=youtu.be
Title: 40 ppm turbidity problem
Post by: Argentum on March 16, 2018, 02:32:56 PM
I've run into the same issue when adding the reducing agent while it is cooking. Then tried it with both the reducing agent and the capping agent, not really much better.

What I do now is to heat the distilled water in a 900 W microwave for 3.33 minutes, add just the electrolyte, top off the cell w/DW and start the process. I have also made a insulating wrap for the cell as I don't use a hot plate. But there is a stirrer.

Once the time is up (5 ma, .95 l, 1 ml electrolyte, 2 hours run time), the Colloidal Silver is a light yellow in color. I place the capping agent (liquid gelatin), and the reducing agent (karo) into an empty distilled water jug. Reheat the cell in the microwave for 1.11 minutes. Then pour it into the jug, cap and shake. Leave sit until cool.

Then bottle it. By the next morning it is a light amber color and clear.

Argentum
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: alex79 on March 16, 2018, 03:02:02 PM
thanks for the reply argentum,

now I make my second attempt but this time I put the electrolyte and the reducing agent in cold DW and start the process.i'll be heating at around 50 degrees :'( C.see what's happening.....
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: alex79 on March 16, 2018, 06:12:34 PM
the second attempt less turbidity
Title: Re: 40 ppm turbidity problem
Post by: Dean on March 16, 2018, 11:23:52 PM
hi, after making a lot of 20ppm and also 320 ppm with success, today I mess up something with my first 40ppm process.
I heated 2L of DW 001ppm  to 50degres C  then put 36 drops electrolyte (18 drops is 1ml for my dropper)and 20 drops 50/50 reducing agent.current was 10mA.started the process and the water temp rise slowly with the process until 70 degrees C.cleaned up the electrodes every 30 min.something strange was when I pull out the electrodes for cleaning with the torch I saw something  like greenish moisture on the anode .from what I've read,  a lot of people here don't heat so much,  maybe 50 degrees is enough?what do you think, where I've mess up things? :o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhW6ku9BFDM&feature=youtu.be

Alex,

The batches I make are 40 and 320 pretty much exclusively and always 1 litre volume.

For 40ppm try 1 litre first and see how you get on with this process:

1. Room temp DW (1litre about 20 - 22 degrees C)
2. Start heat and spin (heat dial at about 12 o'clock only or the point at which you are getting heat in).
3. Add your 1ml Electrolyte (for 1 litre volume)
4. Add your karo
5. let the temp get up to about 30 degrees
6. Start your cell - I run at 10ma with a bullion
7. Keep an eye on the temperature but don't go above 40 C. (You really don't need to).
8. Finish the cell
9. Turn off the heat - Leave it spinning for a few minutes.
10. See how it looks.

Alternatively
Follow the above but use / try 0.6g of maltodextrin as your reducer.
I get the cleanest most consistent batches ever using malto. (tried this after reading some of Wayne's posts).


for both my preferred batches (40 and 320) I start the cell at 30c and let them rise for the duration of the runs. I keep the 40ppm to 40c max (and only 40c by the end of the 1 hour run time)

The 320 I start at 30c and let it slowly rise to about 75c by the end of the 5 1/2 hour run (15ma with a bullion)

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: alex79 on March 17, 2018, 06:33:51 AM
dean,

can you tell me how much Karo(diluted)you use for 1L 40PPM ?many thanks in advance
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: alex79 on March 20, 2018, 07:46:51 PM
today I made another experiment with 40ppm.500ml,10mA,9drops electrolyte and 2 drops reducing agent .start the cell by 40 degrees and reach 65 in 15 min.the process time was 30 min, first 20 min no turbidity, perfectly clear  and in the last 10 min something was starting to show on the anode, you can see the video.this is the reason for turbidity.what I don't know for sure is why.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBRKnlCkvVQ
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Dean on March 20, 2018, 08:54:08 PM
Alex,

A few things to check...

1. Have you recently cleaned your beaker with peroxide?
I had a 40ppm batch go completely opaque within about 10 minutes once.
I had just cleaned my beaker with hydrogen peroxide so thoroughly, thoroughly cleaned it again and it went perfect the second time round.

2. Are you using fresh electrolyte / accurately mixed?
Sometimes just going back to basics is enough to alter the chemistry.

3. Are anode and cathode fire cleaned before the run starts?
Just to rule out any contamination “pre-run”
4. Is your Karo fresh ( can attract mould if diluted and not used up fairly quickly.)

Just a few checks to eliminate the most common causes of what I’ve found to affect clarity.

Lastly, you’re still taking the temperature higher than I would go. I start the cell at 30c and let it rise to 40c by the end.

Have a go at that and see what happens.

Hope this helps.


Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Argentum on March 21, 2018, 12:39:58 AM
I've never been able to get non-turbid 40 PPM when adding a reducer or reducer and capping agent at the beginning. I wait until the electrolysis is done then add the reducer and capping agent to a plastic jug and pour in the Colloidal Silver to fully reduce and cap it.

The other thing, are you keeping the cell voltage above 10 volts?

Interesting phenomenon with what looks like smoke coming off the anode.

Argentum
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Art on March 21, 2018, 04:44:26 AM
I've only seen smoke like that coming off of a silver bar anode when not using a stirrer and running at high current. It formed a small pile of gray to black particles directly under the anode. It looks like the current may be higher than what your meter is showing.

Art
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: alex79 on March 21, 2018, 05:19:01 AM
Alex,

A few things to check...

dean,
electrolyte is good ,also the karo syrop.i use them this week for 320pppm and 20ppm and were fine.the beaker is super clean and i rinse it before a couple of times with DW.i saw your advice about making 40ppm with 40 degres celsius.thanks for advice.

1. Have you recently cleaned your beaker with peroxide?
I had a 40ppm batch go completely opaque within about 10 minutes once.
I had just cleaned my beaker with hydrogen peroxide so thoroughly, thoroughly cleaned it again and it went perfect the second time round.

2. Are you using fresh electrolyte / accurately mixed?
Sometimes just going back to basics is enough to alter the chemistry.

3. Are anode and cathode fire cleaned before the run starts?
Just to rule out any contamination “pre-run”
4. Is your Karo fresh ( can attract mould if diluted and not used up fairly quickly.)

Just a few checks to eliminate the most common causes of what I’ve found to affect clarity.

Lastly, you’re still taking the temperature higher than I would go. I start the cell at 30c and let it rise to 40c by the end.

Have a go at that and see what happens.

Hope this helps.

hi dean
reducing agent and electrolyte are fine,use them this week for 20 and 320ppm.beaker super clean ,rinse it before also a couple of times with DW.flame also the bullion.turbidity problem i have only on 40ppm process with 60 degres temp.what is killing me is how others can do it at higher temp without turbidity.lol
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: alex79 on March 21, 2018, 05:31:40 AM
i have a multimeter conected all the time for double checking the current.i will make another experiment because the only thing that comes in my head is solubility
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on March 21, 2018, 01:33:12 PM
Do you also have a voltmeter connected?  Voltage can change during a run, and is very important.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: alex79 on March 21, 2018, 03:41:11 PM
Do you also have a voltmeter connected?  Voltage can change during a run, and is very important.

I check sometimes the voltage (i have 2 multimeters, one that is good quality and is connected all the time for the current double check and one cheap with it I check the voltage but ramdomly
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: alex79 on March 21, 2018, 06:25:52 PM
DEAN,

IT WORK AT 40 DEGREES CELSIUS.NO TURBIDITY.STILL WONDERING HOW OTHERS SUCCEED AT HIGHER TEMP.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SujxWyIyVyk

THANKS  ;)
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Dean on March 21, 2018, 09:59:35 PM
DEAN,

IT WORK AT 40 DEGREES CELSIUS.NO TURBIDITY.STILL WONDERING HOW OTHERS SUCCEED AT HIGHER TEMP.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SujxWyIyVyk

THANKS  ;)
Awesome result Alex! So happy for you! Don't be so worried about how others do it. At the end of the day it's the result that matters and I'll tell you right now, that's an awesome result! It's the guidelines you get from the forum. That's what empowers you. You're own skill and judgement then comes into play.

I couldn't get washing soda to mix clear no matter what I tried, even though others use it exclusively. Results for all to see on my gallery. It looked like milk every time. In the end I gave up and now just exclusively convert regular bicarbonate of soda which has never failed to work so that's now "my way" of doing it. Well done!! Awesome job!
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: alex79 on March 22, 2018, 05:18:19 AM
thank you for encourage me,many thanks to all that reply to my questions.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Neofizz on March 22, 2018, 06:55:50 PM
That batch in the video looks perfect Alex, with no discernible turbidity. You are right and temperature has something to do with it. Speed of reduction is temperature dependent. And reducing too fast can cause turbidity. Only run your temperature as high as you need to for solubility purposes. When I do 20 ppm I don't use heat at all now.

Different reducers go at different speeds as well. Glucose is fast. Maltodextrin is slower. And Maltose is even slower. I use Maltodextrin unless I'm making a 320 ppm batch.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: peri1224 on April 27, 2018, 01:55:16 AM
I had a supply of 320 ppm gelatin coated Colloidal Silver most of the time, except recently ran out. Then had to make a batch in a hurry. It didn't look as dark as usual but thought nothing of it. The taste seems to be slightly burnt. Then realized this morning that I forgot to put the glucose. I added only gelatin and the electrolyte. Stupid me.
The color looks fairly ok, but I wonder now what I have. Is it of any use?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on April 27, 2018, 02:32:41 AM
You have mostly ionic silver.  Add the reducing agent, and heat it up for a while, you might be able to save it.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: cfnisbet on April 27, 2018, 09:21:01 AM
That batch in the video looks perfect Alex, with no discernible turbidity. You are right and temperature has something to do with it. Speed of reduction is temperature dependent. And reducing too fast can cause turbidity. Only run your temperature as high as you need to for solubility purposes. When I do 20 ppm I don't use heat at all now.

Different reducers go at different speeds as well. Glucose is fast. Maltodextrin is slower. And Maltose is even slower. I use Maltodextrin unless I'm making a 320 ppm batch.
For a long time, I have been suspicious of the speed of reaction (reduction) being the cause of turbidity. The only times I have ever seen a turbid result has been glucose reduction, particularly if there was not enough electrolyte. Slow reduction seems to be a very good idea, unless everything else is perfect.

I agree with not using heat if I am stirring the product mechanically, but I feel that it is essential to stir the bulk fluid somehow.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Neofizz on April 29, 2018, 02:47:45 AM
As Kephra has before stated, it's all a balancing act. We go in the opposite direction when making the 320 ppm colloidal silver, and it still comes out free of turbidity when diluted down to 20 ppm. I have made enough 20 ppm batches with heat and no turbidity as well, and using glucose. But my batches that showed the least Tyndall line were the 20 ppm's run at room temperature with constant stirring, and using maltodextrin to reduce. YMMV

This does sort of get into hair splitting territory so keep that in mind as well.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: wkp80 on January 17, 2019, 07:10:11 PM
Hi all can anyone point me in the right direction where i can find the diagram for making a constant current regulator that is on this site. I have made one of these before and used it for several years with success. I now want to make one for my friend. Also i can't get onto the store site it is saying forbidden. I have also purchased a silvertron  last year and want another one for a family member.Any help will be appreciated.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: cfnisbet on January 17, 2019, 07:40:49 PM
Hi all can anyone point me in the right direction where i can find the diagram for making a constant current regulator that is on this site. I have made one of these before and used it for several years with success. I now want to make one for my friend. Also i can't get onto the store site it is saying forbidden. I have also purchased a silvertron  last year and want another one for a family member.Any help will be appreciated.
We don't post circuit diagrams any more. I suggest you PM Kephra if you can't get into the SilverTron store. Otherwise, it would have to be a Bench PSU from eBay or Amazon.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Dean on January 17, 2019, 09:28:29 PM
cfnisbet

I have passed links and info to wkp80 via the facebook page. Have explained the situation. re country restrictions.
Hopefully Kephra will pick up and provide up to date position on accessibility.

(I just posted in experts as well regarding this but as it's now picked up here, please ignore that post.)

Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: wgpeters on January 17, 2019, 09:42:30 PM
Hi all can anyone point me in the right direction where i can find the diagram for making a constant current regulator that is on this site. I have made one of these before and used it for several years with success. I now want to make one for my friend. Also i can't get onto the store site it is saying forbidden. I have also purchased a silvertron  last year and want another one for a family member.Any help will be appreciated.
Email kephra at ptd dot net.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: wkp80 on January 18, 2019, 11:03:58 AM
Thanks for your help on this issue
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: muhendisane on June 05, 2019, 02:15:16 PM
I'm preparing for producing the kephra's method.

1- I bought corn syrup yesterday, color is transparent, it has no yellow color, is that mean its light syrup that kephra using and is this the best form of syrup?

2- i need assistant about my silver wire shape and calculating surface area. The submerged area is about 13cm, width is 2,95mm on top and 2,65mm on the bottom (i've used it before for my ex formula) avarage diameter is 2,8mm, i thought i need do the calculation based on the average 2,8mm diameter, is that ok? It's also weighs 11,54 grams.

3- My silver wire has rectangle shaped not rounded, Do i have to multiply the surface area by four? For ex. 13cmx0,28cm=3,64cm² this is surface area for the one side of the wire, it has 4 sides, do i have to multiply by four?

4- I can set the electrode spacing minimum 43mm because of my electrode fixture. Based on my electrode sizes, what is the best electrode voltage for this? I know from article nr. 3, for wider electrode spacing, you need higher voltage. I know 10-12 volts good for 37mm spacing.

5- @cfnisbet says on blog "1 ma per square centimetre of submerged anode area for the suggested current when processing DW hot.
10 ma per square inch of submerged anode area when processing DW hot.
2 or 3 ma per sq inch of anode area when processing cold."

I will do the process cold, after it finished will heat it to the 60°c than will add the RA. In this case what is the current i need with my square wire?

Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: cfnisbet on June 05, 2019, 03:35:51 PM
I would suggest 3-5 mA for all wires or similar-sized anodes.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on June 05, 2019, 06:00:46 PM
Don't bother trying to calculate a current.  Here is the only thing that matters.
If you see brown smoke like clouds coming off the positive electrode, your current is too high, reduce it until you don't notice the smoke.  Use as large of an anode as possible unless you have a magnetic stirrer.

Karo comes in three varieties, "Light", "Dark", and "Lite".  Do not use "Lite".

Electrode voltage should be 3.5 + .175*mm where mm = electrode spacing in millimeters.
So for 43mm spacing, minimum voltage should be 11 volts.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: muhendisane on June 06, 2019, 03:04:13 PM
@kephra to learn and clarify the exact amounts instead of aprroximate drop amounts of electrolyte solution, I measure the weight of the electrolyte drops for full of tea spoon as you say. I count 35 drops from my dropper bottle to fill the tea spoon. Divided this by five = 7 drops for 1 liter. Also total amount of 35 drops, weighs 1.33 grams.

I buy washing soda from grocery store, measure the weight of the soda 12.40grams in 100ml beker and i added require amount of DW to fill it to the 100ml level.   

You all can see drop count weight in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwProqwnu6E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwProqwnu6E)
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on June 06, 2019, 05:43:15 PM
Well there is something wrong with your measurement.  For a 1 liter batch, you should use 1 ml of 1 molar sodium carbonate.  1 ml weighs about 1 gram.  Your teaspoon showed a weight of 1.3 grams when full.

A standard teaspoon holds 5 ml, so should weigh 5 grams of water.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: muhendisane on June 06, 2019, 09:42:27 PM
@kephra, yes you're right. I think my teaspoon is smaller one. I'm not living in the us. I measured it again. 1ml of DW weighs exactly 1.00 grams, and 1ml of Electrolyte weighs exact 1.10 grams. And with my dropper bottle 25 drops weighs 1.10 grams. So if i put 25 drops electrolyte from my dropper bottle to the 1 liter batch, i am putting 1ml of electrolyte.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on June 06, 2019, 09:46:47 PM
Glad I could help :)
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: muhendisane on June 07, 2019, 04:02:56 PM
Glad I could help :)

Glad i found you and this forum. Thanks for everything.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: muhendisane on June 08, 2019, 10:53:01 AM
Does the Sodium Chloride has to be chemically pure and food grade? Or just any washing soda without extra detergent additives would be fine?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on June 08, 2019, 12:22:54 PM
I think you are cnfusing sodium carbonate with sodium chloride.
Sodium chloride has no place in making colloidal silver.
Sodium carbonate should have no extra ingredients.
You can make sodium carbonate from baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) by baking it, but only use 1.6 10.6 grams of the powder to make 100ml of electroyte.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: muhendisane on June 08, 2019, 04:37:00 PM
Sorry, i mean sodium carbonate. I did misspelling.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on June 08, 2019, 04:46:36 PM
OOPS,  I said 1.6 grams which should have been 10.6 grams.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: muhendisane on June 08, 2019, 04:50:32 PM
I think we're not at our best today  :)
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: muhendisane on June 08, 2019, 05:30:49 PM
Are these oxygen or hydrogen bubbles coming off the cathode and thats mean too much current or just silver positive / negative ions interchange between electrodes (i don't remember the technical name right now)?

https://youtu.be/7g8WBBVSTMY (https://youtu.be/7g8WBBVSTMY)
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: kephra on June 08, 2019, 06:10:45 PM
Are these oxygen or hydrogen bubbles coming off the cathode and thats mean too much current or just silver positive / negative ions interchange between electrodes (i don't remember the technical name right now)?

https://youtu.be/7g8WBBVSTMY (https://youtu.be/7g8WBBVSTMY)

No, thats not what it means.  The bubbles from the cathode are hydrogen gas from sodium metal reacting with water.

Ionic sodium is reduced on the cathode creating metallic sodium.  Metallic sodium reacts violently with water producing hydrogen an sodium hydroxide.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Turbidaceous on February 08, 2020, 09:24:11 PM
Hi.

I am trying to figure out the best, cheapest setup I can do. I bought from America a cheap system which is essentially instructions and a couple crocodile leads with a 10k resistor fitted inline with the positive lead. Instructions say clip three 9v batteries in series and connect the negative to the stainless steel bowl and the positive to the silver which you dangle into the bowl but ensuring it is suspended and not touching the bowl. Great, I have that down. But all it does is make clear ionic it seems with perhaps some colloidal. I have added some Golden Syrup as suggested here and elsewhere and it is still clear. Slightly hazy but relatively clear with no discernable colour. I have ordered some Sodium Carbonate which I should receive tomorrow. My hope is in the meantime that adding some of this to my first batch will make the colour go yellow. I already saw it go yellow after failed attempts to get the ph higher with other things and when I dumped it in a waste glass of water and who knows what else POOF it went yellow, so my hope is I should get yellow when I add some Sodium Carbonate?!

But, is there a better cheaper or faster system to more accurately make it? Currently I am taking their 1-1.5 gallon at 48 hours and calculating down for my lower volume 2L steel bowl, so it's taking about 21 hours when full or about 13 hours if I am making 1.25L

If you have any info on the basics of a better setup which is faster but yields good quality genuine colloidal silver, I would be very interested. I keep seeing people soldering something-something-ometers and altering things and I just get lost. People say fast is bad, slower and more time consuming yields better but then I saw something here which made it seem fast. My head just spins with all the seemingly conflicting information all over the web. Any clarification would be helpful. Thanks.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: chrisflhtc on February 09, 2020, 06:18:40 PM
Did you read all the articles?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Turbidaceous on February 09, 2020, 06:58:49 PM
Yes and I am experimenting. I am trying to use what I have rather than going all-new.

So my adding sodium carbonate worked within a few minutes to turn my non-electrolyte version yellow in a few minutes, maybe half an hour perhaps. But I have now made 2 batches based on the articles where I calculate the carbonate and add that based on the amount of liquid. It was MUCH faster, though after adding my dilute golden syrup, it has barely changed the colour after 1 hour. The one thing I have not found is how long it takes to cold-reduce Colloidal Silver done with syrup reducer. Is it normal that it takes a while? The first batch converted over relatively quickly.

My thought is maybe my first one, not using any sodium carbonate produced a different more pure molecule which is quicker to reduce, where the electrolyte version had some other form of silver perhaps which adds extra processing time to fully reduce? Is my assumption correct? Can you add anything on how long a cold reduction of Colloidal Silver-S takes to reduce?

Thanks
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Gene on February 10, 2020, 07:20:22 AM
If you want to make real Colloidal Silver and know what PPM you made, you NEED a current limiter. 27V and a resistor is not going to do it.  Without constant current (which you won't get), you have no clue what you made.

Read the articles and follow what they say.  These are time tested, true procedures for doing it properly. There is no "cutting any corner" here.

Also too, the current you need to use is rather small.  For silver wire, 5-10ma tops. For a silver bullion bar, 15-20ma and as I said, it must be constant current. This is the only way Faraday's law of electrolysis works. There is no other way to determine the PPM of your result.  There is no meter you can buy to measure it. Constant current and proper cell voltage and time based on Faraday's law of electrolysis is the only way to do it properly.

All reducers require you heat the IS solution to maybe 120F+ degrees. They reduce extremely slowly if even at all at room temp.  Even at 120F they can take a while.

The purpose of the sodium carbonate is to reduce the resistance of the water so you can get reasonably good current through the cell. It has a couple other purposes. Your cell is an electroplating cell. Without the sodium carbonate electrolyte, the silver ions you draw off the anode into the water would immediately plate-out on the cathode. This would render IS production worthless as you wouldn't make any. The electrolyte interferes with the silver plating out on the cathode where now you can build up the PPM in solution so when you reduce you actually get a reasonable PPM. The sodium carbonate also raises the PH of the solution to around 8-8.5PH (alkaline).  Reducers are sugars (glucose, maltodextrin,...) and they only work and reduce in an alkaline environment.

You really need to reread the articles and study them and BELIEVE what they say. If you don't follow the procedure properly, there's no clue what you made and no way to measure it.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Turbidaceous on February 10, 2020, 02:50:16 PM
I have just ordered a 30v 500mAh mains power supply, a 1M ohm Potentiometer and a pair of crocodile clips. I am going to try to rig up a constant current.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Turbidaceous on February 10, 2020, 06:37:51 PM
I think the one thing which still fully escapes me, is I have seen people here say adding some things to their Colloidal Silver (salt?) makes it go clear and back to ionic. Does that mean you can make the best actual colloidal silver, but when you take it, your body or the things in your stomach convert it back away from beiung colloidal into being ionic?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: cfnisbet on February 10, 2020, 09:02:05 PM
No, that's why we use capping agents. These prevent, wholly or partially, the Colloidal Silver particles from being turned back into ionic silver. Cinnamon tincture seems to be adequate, gelatin seems to be excellent. That's why we recommend them.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Turbidaceous on February 11, 2020, 02:34:28 AM
Interesting. At first when I saw mentioning of capping, I thought people were talking about putting colloidal silver in capsules, because any time I ever heard capping that is what was meant. Is the "capping" agent needed due to the production method of the colloidal silver? Or is it a necesarry step for any and all colloidal silver made via any method at all?

Edit: I saw on one of the articles talking about adding 0.5ml of cinnamon tincture to the water during creation. If you make higher ppm do you have to add more than 0.5ml of cinnamon, such as 40ppm needing 1ml? It was not very clear to me if a 0.5ml of it should be used for a certain amount of water in the batch either.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Turbidaceous on February 12, 2020, 05:54:03 PM
I had a feeling the 1mega ohm potentiometer would be too strong. It was not granular enough, it went from no resistance when I tested it on my multimeter to like 20,000 ohm with the faintest whiff of movement on the dial. So I have ordered 100k ohm ones. I got my £11 30v 500mAh power supply. I stripped the wires, attached to crocodile leads and in trhe interrim until I get the new potentiometers I connected my existing 10k ohm in-line lead from my existing kit. I get a constant 2.77ma current. I am almost done making a 1.5L batch and then I shall filter and reduce it. This will be my first batch using non-battery power, constant current source.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Turbidaceous on February 12, 2020, 06:55:22 PM
Okay. I added 4 drops of dilute golden syrup. Less than I had been using initially with my first colloidal silver attempts. This batch using 2.77 constant current, is slightly lighter in colour (consistent with an example image I have seen on here with an A and B about how much reducer to add) but it is not quite as crystal clear as ones I have made. Yes, it is clear and I can see through it perfectly but it has a faint but present haze which only one of my other batches had. I am not sure what causes the tiny bit of haze but it looks like images I have seen on here of good reduced colloidal silver. So I am very satisfied.

One of my first batches on the left, latest one with the constant current above (I used the formula in Excel to calculate the right time to make it.
(https://i.imgur.com/QnrQJu0.jpg)

EDIT

What is a good but easy to achieve way of securing a 1 gram bullion bar for use in making colloidal silver so that stirers or fans won't blow the electrodes about and accidentally make them contact each other directly?

EDIT

By the way, my 30v 500mAh wall-wart power supply is working out great. I have connected a 100k Potentiometer (I shall switch it out in time for a 50k to have better sensitivity) and I have been able to dial in 4ma current in the water with my multi-meter in line. Then once satisfied I remove the multimeter and connect the leads together instead (just to remove the meter from the circuit) and I have successfully made a test 250ml batch in 18.8 minutes and then I microwaved it in a clean and dry coffee mug for about 2:30 with 1 drop of dilute golden syrup and some stiring. What a nice thing. It's a bit of work to set everything up but this simple system seems to be working great. In time I plan on buying a magnetic stirrer and setting up a classic 2 electrode in a top-down system as most people use. But for now, this is working great for me.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Turbidaceous on February 18, 2020, 02:09:51 PM
Turns out this is not constant current. I thought a mains powered power supply was constant current, compared to batteries which drain. I was wrong. I am ready to give up on constant current because I cannot find ANYWHERE the right clear, simple instructions on what you need to buy, how you use it and why it works. I hear about LM something or other and 2 transistor setups. It just confounds my brain and I do not understand any of it. I get potentiometers to drop the ma to the 3ma I want. I would really appreciate some information so that I can progress with my setup to make it perfect because I am close to giving up on it 😫
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Turbidaceous on February 22, 2020, 03:48:52 PM
Regarding smoke. I can often detect wisps coming out when I shine a light through it at the right angle. But with just my eye without the light I see nothing. Does that classify as bad smoke? Even if you have to use a light to see it?

I made a batch earlier and it was perfect, even with a light I could not see any trace of anything. I fire cleaned the silver, did the same thing and this time I saw a bit of whispy strands of thin smoke coming out when I shine a flashlight on it. Now, I use a USB desk fan to blow on the water to create a bit of movement (until I can afford to buy this, which I have in my cart: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/79-1-1000ml-Hot-Plate-Magnetic-Stirrer-Lab-Heating-Dual-Control-Mixer-220V/143327380133  )so is the fan angle possibly the culprit of why last batch was the first perfect ever but this time I am seeing the usual thin strands coming off the silver?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: cfnisbet on February 25, 2020, 07:17:17 PM
What you can see as "smoke" is often tiny bubbles, or silver oxide in the process of dissolving. If the end result is clear and not turbid, then it's fine.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Turbidaceous on February 25, 2020, 07:29:13 PM
It is usually fine. I only had issues without using the fan and using higher current. I saw the cathode geometry post and calculated my rough area and I should stick to 3ma (as I do now). But with a 1oz I should be able to do 10ma accommodating for how much I leave as a safety margin to connect the crocodile lead. But I may experiment with the 10g bullion coupling idea next time. I just have to borrow a drill because I do not own one myself. I have a junior hacksaw, so I would have to be very careful to clean the silver before using it as an anode... but I think it should work well based on your info about heating it. I will give it a quick diamond filing though to remove the fingerprint and any traces of things on the surface before I use it again though.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Patnuck on March 08, 2020, 01:01:55 AM
I think I have a problem with my process.  I am using 27 volt battery power with home made constant current setup, using 2 transistors and resistors, with 999.99 Canadian Maple Coin and 12 gauge copper wire as the electrodes. I use a magnetic stirrer and run at 15ma with sodium carbonate electrolyte. After production I reduce with dilute corn syrup and the finished product looks perfect, nice straw color and clear as a bell. The problem I refer to is that if I shine a laser beam through I see the Tyndall effect although it is very sharp and defined. Is this normal or am I doing something wrong?  Thanks
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Turbidaceous on March 08, 2020, 01:41:09 AM
Does it spread out and light up the whole jar? If so, that is bad. The more I make it, the better I get. My last four 1L batches have turned out perfect. Crystal clear, perfect yellow colour, no turbidity, no opalescence or "sheen" in the light and the Tyndall effect is quite faint and contained to the beam with no big sparkles or anything just a very faint haze beam. Even with a laser. I'd call that perfect. So if your Tyndall is faint and constrained only to the light source's natural beam, it is probably ok. But if it lights up like a christmas tree or a searchlight through the fog, then it's bad.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Patnuck on March 08, 2020, 02:22:28 AM
Thanks for the reply, no it does not light up like a Christmas tree it seems to be contained within the beam. I might add that the laser is from a a temperature reader and is quit strong. I have another laser pointer than is not as strong and doesn't show up at all when shone through. From your answer I think I'm concerned unnecessarily, thanks.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: PhiPhi on March 19, 2020, 12:57:58 PM
I just finished my first 250ml batch,

Electrolyte: 5 drops of Sodium carbonate (anhydrous) I mixed 1 level tea spoon to 60ml (2.11 Oz) DW
Anode: 1 Ozt Silver Maple 80% submerged
Cathode: Thin copper wire approx 1mm diameter submerged 5mm
Electrodes: spacing 38mm (1.5 inches)
Power: 3 PP9 27v Batteries with potentiometer inline from + to anode
Medium: 250ml Medical grade DW
Reducer: 5 drops Karo diluted 1:1 DW

The first 5 mins were a bit of a learning curve trying to get the voltage down from 16v-14.6v to around 13.5 volts
Then 15 minutes at a steady 13.4 volts but the current was around 21ma (but not sure if I was using the multimeter correctly)
The coin blackened somewhat and the anode fizzed with tiny bubbles, I saw no 'smoke' coming off the coin.
Added reducer and 900 watt microwaved for 60 sec, stirred and repeated 30 sec 3 times, throughout this stage the solution went from clear to yellow.

I can see the Tyndall effect strongly with the lights out and a few sparklers, in low light it's feint and in bright light non existent, the laser source is a laser measure with a strong thick beam.  Anyone care to speculate if I can use this even just as mouth wash or disinfectant?



Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Smoke7 on March 24, 2020, 01:22:13 AM
Hello all.
Can someone identify/advice about what went wrong or why I’ve got discoloration on my colloidal silver?
The generator I used I made myself. I used 30V 1A DC power supply with reverse polarity board which is reversing every 30 second +/- I used 10 drops of Silverlight I made last year by backed backing soda, and I just made a new reducing agent right before start creating the silver.  The first batch went very well, however this one not so much. Another thing is when I added reducing agent and start heating up (I used the pot with boiling water and put a beaker on top) It took about 15-20 minutes to turn perfectly amber/golden color (I used 8 drops of (Karo 50/50%) reducing agent  for 2000ml). After that I let it cool down and put it inside the cardboard box overnight.  The next morning the beaker was covered in silver (I should have taken a picture before I washed the beaker) and the silver turned into a milky color.
P.S I ran the generator for about 4 hours with ¼ silver rods and magnetic steering on very slow speed. I have no Idea how much PPM is in it but TDS-3 was showing 34PPM after completion and only 15PPM next day. It looks like the whole silver was left on the bottom and on the sides of the beaker. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Thank you
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: wgpeters on March 24, 2020, 01:33:06 AM
It looks like you did everything wrong.  Read the numbered articles.
Also read the article about TDS meters.
Oh, and throw away polarity reversal.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: cfnisbet on March 24, 2020, 07:58:10 AM
Looks like it was generated at a current which was too high and with reduction which was too fast. The particles are too big.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: chrisflhtc on March 24, 2020, 01:05:32 PM
If you reversed polarity you made a copper colloid
ICK   Don't do that.
Sorry I thought were using a copper cathode NvrMnd
Chris
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Smoke7 on March 25, 2020, 04:11:27 AM
Thank you for all help and replies. I rebuild my generator and added Adjustable Step Down Buck Converter I took from my Arduino project.
I also rad some recommendation on this site and throw away reverse polarity board (as you suggested) and will continue to read on this site (it just soooo many advice's and confusion with this project) but I am not giving up so easy :) I will try another batch and will post here my result. I still have one question I couldn't find answer yet!!! If I am using 2L beaker with 2L distill water do I have to increase elecrtolight  and reducing agent? Or if somebody will be so nice and just post here how many drops electrolight and reducing agent for 2L will greatly appreciated.    Oh one more thing is it still 60min for 2L or should I shoot for more time to get 20PPM

Thank you all.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: PhiPhi on March 25, 2020, 09:19:23 AM
Smoke7  I'm still trying to work all this out myself but I would save your distilled water by making smaller 250ml batches first, when you have succeeded go 500ml and work up to bigger quantities.  Also do you have an accurate multi-meter that can monitor the current as a consistent current seems to be the key to quality?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Smoke7 on March 25, 2020, 04:59:56 PM
Thank you for advice.
My main multi-miter is FLUKE and all my other multi-miters I calibrated so they are very close to 99% accurate. :)
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Smoke7 on March 25, 2020, 10:32:42 PM
Well, I couldn’t wait any longer and made a new batch today, and it looks very nice and is golden clear.
Here is what I did. 1L DW, 10 drops of electrolyte and 13V across the silver rods 1.5” space between the rods (stirring on very low speed). Ran it for an hour and it had a nice good laser beam through the batch.
I warmed it up in microwave for 60sec. a couple of times and then put it on top of the pot with boiling water. Once it reached 140F, let it cool down for around 1-2 hours. And here is the result.
Thank you all for your help. I am aiming for 100PPM but will have to do more reading :)
P.S. It looks little bit darker on the picture than in reality

Forgot to mention I added 4 drops of the reduced agent.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Liam on March 25, 2020, 10:38:58 PM
In your second photo, you should not see a laser beam.  Anytime you get a visible laser beam, it is not good.
It means that you have a lot of precipitated silver oxide floating around in the water.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Smoke7 on March 25, 2020, 10:47:30 PM
Thanks for reply.
Damn, I was so happy with result.
So what steps should I take to eliminate that problem?
What did I do wrong?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: wgpeters on March 26, 2020, 12:08:58 AM
Either your current is too high for the size of your anode, or you pushed the ppm past 20 by running too long.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Smoke7 on March 26, 2020, 12:28:50 AM
Thank you.
I have two 1/8" silver roads and was using DC buck converter to drop down voltage to 13V and was running for 1 hour sharp.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: wgpeters on March 26, 2020, 12:32:30 AM
Quote
I have two 1/4" silver roads and was using DC buck converter to drop down voltage to 13V and was running for 1 hour sharp.
Thats meaningless unless you tell us your current.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Smoke7 on March 26, 2020, 12:41:42 AM
Thanks again.
I will monitor current with new batch I am going to make. I wasn't monitoring this time. :-[ Can I still use this silver or throw it away?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Smoke7 on March 26, 2020, 08:08:23 PM
I am going crazy, frustrated, and I just can’t figure out what I am doing wrong. Per your suggestion I dropped down current to 5ma and voltage was around 8-9V and I still start seeing the laser beam in about 30min. What the heck is wrong with me and what am I doing wrong. My setup 1/8" .999 silver roads 24V power supply (not just adapter) BUCK converter and magnetic stirring. I added 20drop of electrolyte (as on instruction) and was going to run for 60min on 1L of distilled water. I used the Instruction below.

Starting with 1 liter of water, add 20 drops of sodium carbonate solution
Time required for 1 liter of 20 ppm Colloidal silver at various constant currents:

Current mA      Time minutes
  3                  100
  5                  60
  6                  50
  10                 30
  15                 20
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Smoke7 on March 26, 2020, 09:01:40 PM
P.S.

I went ahead and converted to colloidal silver with 4 drops of the reducing agent. Looks much lighter than the previous and the laser beam is not strong as it was in Ionic. However I am still confused why I am seeing that laser beam?
Any help will be much appreciated. 
Thank you
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: cfnisbet on March 26, 2020, 09:22:27 PM
Forget the laser. It tells you nothing.

The only variables are current and time. If you don't have an exact Constant Current (you really would be better off with this) then you can approximate it by working out the equation in time chunks and then adding the ppm results together.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Smoke7 on March 26, 2020, 09:39:44 PM
Thanks for reply.
I did not get any chunks and didn't have to clean the silver roads during the process, the picture is shows the roads after an hour of process. Nothing build up on the roads and the current was 4.6-4.8 almost all the time, I may had to adjust once or twice by 00.1ma.

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: nix2p on March 28, 2020, 10:41:36 PM

Emergency kit, for making colloidal silver, (by Mark, ex-forum member):

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xur-oP3bmbc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xur-oP3bmbc)

Nix
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: bcboy on March 28, 2020, 11:29:32 PM

Emergency kit, for making colloidal silver, (by Mark, ex-forum member):

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xur-oP3bmbc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xur-oP3bmbc)

Nix
Thanks for posting the link.
 ;D
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: cfnisbet on March 29, 2020, 12:40:50 PM
Thanks for reply.
I did not get any chunks and didn't have to clean the silver roads during the process, the picture is shows the roads after an hour of process. Nothing build up on the roads and the current was 4.6-4.8 almost all the time, I may had to adjust once or twice by 00.1ma.

Thanks again.
I think that I used the wrong word, there. When I said "chunks" I meant small time intervals, not physical chunks of silver oxide.

It is possible to do the calculation on a spreadsheet so that you input the time in minutes and the amperage, and the spreadsheet will calculate the resulting ppm made for that time interval; if you then repeat this, you can add the ppm figures together and produce an approximate total of silver ppm in the resulting batch.

This is actually what the SilverTron does; it counts the silver ions generated over the time interval and integrates the total, only much more accurately.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: wgpeters on March 29, 2020, 02:00:10 PM
Quote
This is actually what the SilverTron does; it counts the silver ions generated over the time interval and integrates the total, only much more accurately.
Yep, it recalculates 100 times per second.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Smoke7 on March 31, 2020, 06:12:22 AM
Thanks for reply.
I did not get any chunks and didn't have to clean the silver roads during the process, the picture is shows the roads after an hour of process. Nothing build up on the roads and the current was 4.6-4.8 almost all the time, I may had to adjust once or twice by 00.1ma.

Thanks again.
I think that I used the wrong word, there. When I said "chunks" I meant small time intervals, not physical chunks of silver oxide.

It is possible to do the calculation on a spreadsheet so that you input the time in minutes and the amperage, and the spreadsheet will calculate the resulting ppm made for that time interval; if you then repeat this, you can add the ppm figures together and produce an approximate total of silver ppm in the resulting batch.

This is actually what the SilverTron does; it counts the silver ions generated over the time interval and integrates the total, only much more accurately.
Thanks for the explanation, I’ve got really confused with word "chunks" ;D ;D. I found your new post and waiting for completion. Thank you for doing that, we all really appreciate your time and help.     
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: cfnisbet on March 31, 2020, 10:43:27 AM
Your last photo looks pefect for 20 ppm.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Smoke7 on March 31, 2020, 11:35:10 PM
Your last photo looks perfect for 20 ppm.
Thank you, It means a lot to me.  :)
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Toenail on April 04, 2020, 03:06:43 AM
I greatly appreciate the information on this site as it has made my attempts to make excellent colloidal silver.  I really though I had established my final setup but I see something I did not expect.  I am using a 30 vdc supply with a LM317 to keep the current constant.  It seems to really work great.  I used a 14 gauge solid copper wire for the Cathode and a 1 ounce bar for the Anode.  The bar is almost completely submerged.  I adjusted the voltage to approximately 18 volts and the current to 10ma and ran for 30 minutes.  It seemed to make a really nicely colored liter of Colloidal Silver but I did notice something I had not seen before.  The Cathode was providing a steady stream of fine bubbles.  Not the same as the smoke I have seen previously from the Anode.  I use a stirrer and it pulls a pool down about 1 1/2 inches.  Am I doing something wrong.  I see no smoke from the Anode.  Anyone have a comment? 
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: wgpeters on April 04, 2020, 03:21:05 AM
The negative electrode generates hydrogen gas when the sodium ions are reduced and then react with water.

Na + H2O  -> NaOH +H

This regenerates the electrolyte.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Toenail on April 07, 2020, 03:46:47 PM
Thanks for the reply.  I am very pleased with the results from following the basic guidelines presented here.  I did find other information on the internet but this site seems to be the very best.

 
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Turbidaceous on April 07, 2020, 04:20:56 PM
This reminds me why I am here. Who, but a scientist/chemist/etc would know this and be able to plan something like the recipe on this site to reliably make a good Colloidal Silver product? You just cannot beat this forum. I very much appreciate what you have done for the world. It may not be easy for a lot of people to do, but you have made this so much more accessible to those of us who can do it, when we know how.

Thanks

The negative electrode generates hydrogen gas when the sodium ions are reduced and then react with water.

Na + H2O  -> NaOH +H

This regenerates the electrolyte.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: RedDogJT on April 09, 2020, 05:50:17 PM
Thanks for the reply.  I am very pleased with the results from following the basic guidelines presented here.  I did find other information on the internet but this site seems to be the very best.
Toenail, you said you are using a magnetic stirrer? Then no heat?  You also mentioned it pulls down the surface with the vortex wave?  I could see that might create problems if your not careful.  Is the stirrer dialed down to the lowest setting?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: RedDogJT on April 09, 2020, 06:04:02 PM

Emergency kit, for making colloidal silver, (by Mark, ex-forum member):

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xur-oP3bmbc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xur-oP3bmbc)

Nix
Thanks Nix, but on the baking the baking soda, is that also recommended here?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: wgpeters on April 09, 2020, 06:12:34 PM
You must either use washing soda, or baking soda that has been converted.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: RedDogJT on April 09, 2020, 08:08:56 PM
You must either use washing soda, or baking soda that has been converted.
So it is just sodium carbonate, nothing else? That is what this product is then? It is so darn cheap, less than $5 and free shipping! I'm wondering if this is pure?
Some of the online resources have cautions if ingested and others call it a "food additive"  Are they all equal if they only say Sodium Carbonate?

Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: cfnisbet on April 09, 2020, 08:25:26 PM
Arm & Hammer Soldium Carbonate is the one you want if you are not making your own. Remember that you need to use a little more is you use the sodium carbonate monohydrate. 12.4 g per 100 mls of Distilled Water.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: TheresaBee on April 22, 2020, 08:52:58 PM
Evening all.
I hope this is the right place to post my plea for assistance. I've been making 2 litre batches of gel capped 320ppm with my Silvertron with no problems. However, the last three times I've got it up and running, I've found the oxide build up on the anode and cathode suddenly switches about a third of the way through, and silver plates the inside of my jar instead! Every time I suspend the run to clean the anode and cathode, there is next to nothing to wipe off, and I see the jar has started to get the shiny silver look.
I've tried making fresh electrolyte, and my workspace is scrupulously clean, but the batch I'm doing today is going the same way. It seems to start off fine,  the first time I suspend the run to clean, there is the normal expected amount of oxide to remove, but it goes tits up after that I'm sorry to say.  :(
My question is, why has it started to do this? (I've been making silver for about 2 and a half years with my Silvertron) oh and also is the colloidal silver useless? Technically that's two questions sorry  ;D
P.s The finished stuff tastes and behaves normally, and is clear once diluted in a glass of water, so I dunno what I'm doing!
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: RedDogJT on April 22, 2020, 08:56:57 PM
Best to wait for the expert wgpeters to answer, as it is a technical and mechanical problem.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: wgpeters on April 22, 2020, 09:11:16 PM
@TheresaBee:

Apparently some difference has snuck into your procedures.  The jar silvers because the ionic silver is not being reduced fast enough, which may imply your reducing agent has gone bad, or is not enough.  So I would double check your Karo.

Once a jar has become silvered, you should not use until the silver is removed from the jars surface.  If its still semi transparent, you can salvage it by soaking it in peroxide.  The silvering creates another electrode which interferes with the process.

Since it used to work for you, something has changed with the chemistry.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: RedDogJT on April 22, 2020, 10:07:51 PM
@TheresaBee:

Apparently some difference has snuck into your procedures.  The jar silvers because the ionic silver is not being reduced fast enough, which may imply your reducing agent has gone bad, or is not enough.  So I would double check your Karo.

Once a jar has become silvered, you should not use until the silver is removed from the jars surface.  If its still semi transparent, you can salvage it by soaking it in peroxide.  The silvering creates another electrode which interferes with the process.

Since it used to work for you, something has changed with the chemistry.
Speaking of chemistry, WG can you tell me why Hydrogen Peroxide will interact and clean silver?  I'm asking because many people (myself included) inhale H2O2 almost everyday.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: wgpeters on April 22, 2020, 10:47:30 PM
Peroxide is a very strong oxidizer.  1 Liter of peroxide can produce 10 liters of oxygen.

Peroxide reacts with silver giving off oxygen and converting the silver metal to silver oxide.

2Ag + 4H202 --> 2Ag0 + 4H2O +O2

This reaction was used to power torpedoes in Russian submarines at one time.  A leaking peroxide valve caused a torpedo to explode in the Russian Kursk, sinking the sub.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: RedDogJT on April 23, 2020, 12:17:02 AM
Peroxide is a very strong oxidizer.  1 Liter of peroxide can produce 10 liters of oxygen.

Peroxide reacts with silver giving off oxygen and converting the silver metal to silver oxide.

2Ag + 4H202 --> 2Ag0 + 4H2O +O2

This reaction was used to power torpedoes in Russian submarines at one time.  A leaking peroxide valve caused a torpedo to explode in the Russian Kursk, sinking the sub.
Those pesky Russian's!  :D
So silver oxide is not a good thing in our bodies?  I'm asking again because I'm dosing with two highly oxidizing elements: Vitamin C and H202.  Naturally, I don't want to sink my own sub! ???
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: TheresaBee on April 23, 2020, 12:48:46 AM
@TheresaBee:

Apparently some difference has snuck into your procedures.  The jar silvers because the ionic silver is not being reduced fast enough, which may imply your reducing agent has gone bad, or is not enough.  So I would double check your Karo.

You could be on to something there! My Karo is 2 and a half years old. So are the 2 litres I've just made useless? Do I chuck the lot, or does it still have the same amount of nanoparticles and stuff?
I'm cleaning the jar with peroxide after use, it's the only thing that will clean it.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: RedDogJT on April 23, 2020, 01:28:19 AM
Karo will typically mold if not refrigerated, and even if refrigerated I don't think it will last that long.  I would not want anything that had mold in it.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: wgpeters on April 23, 2020, 01:54:03 AM
Peroxide is a very strong oxidizer.  1 Liter of peroxide can produce 10 liters of oxygen.

Peroxide reacts with silver giving off oxygen and converting the silver metal to silver oxide.

2Ag + 4H202 --> 2Ag0 + 4H2O +O2

This reaction was used to power torpedoes in Russian submarines at one time.  A leaking peroxide valve caused a torpedo to explode in the Russian Kursk, sinking the sub.
Those pesky Russian's!  :D
So silver oxide is not a good thing in our bodies?  I'm asking again because I'm dosing with two highly oxidizing elements: Vitamin C and H202.  Naturally, I don't want to sink my own sub! ???
Vitamin C is not an oxidizing agent, it is a reducing agent.  Any substance which is know to be an anti-oxidant is in reality a reducing agent, excluding things like paint which we use to keep our car fenders from turning to rust.

Silver oxide is not good to ingest.  It turns to silver chloride in the stomach and is what can turn people into smurfs.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: imcool on April 23, 2020, 04:28:30 PM
Peroxide is a very strong oxidizer.  1 Liter of peroxide can produce 10 liters of oxygen.

Peroxide reacts with silver giving off oxygen and converting the silver metal to silver oxide.

2Ag + 4H202 --> 2Ag0 + 4H2O +O2

This reaction was used to power torpedoes in Russian submarines at one time.  A leaking peroxide valve caused a torpedo to explode in the Russian Kursk, sinking the sub.
Those pesky Russian's!  :D
So silver oxide is not a good thing in our bodies?  I'm asking again because I'm dosing with two highly oxidizing elements: Vitamin C and H202.  Naturally, I don't want to sink my own sub! ???
Vitamin C is not an oxidizing agent, it is a reducing agent.  Any substance which is know to be an anti-oxidant is in reality a reducing agent, excluding things like paint which we use to keep our car fenders from turning to rust.

Silver oxide is not good to ingest.  It turns to silver chloride in the stomach and is what can turn people into smurfs.

sorry to divert the thread a little bit, Kephra, can you please help me with this issue i ran into with gold water

https://www.cgcsforum.org/index.php?topic=5108.0
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: wgpeters on April 23, 2020, 04:33:26 PM
Filter it.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: imcool on April 23, 2020, 05:23:23 PM
Filter it.

I did and it developed again, i forgot to mentioned this is second time it developed, i did filter it the first time thinking that its some impurity, i might have missed
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Josie29 on April 23, 2020, 05:47:22 PM
TheresaBee:

I make 320 ppm frequently.

Recently I noted one batch during which the glass became very 'silvered.'

The only thing I had done differently was change my heat to <150 degrees F.

I don't know 'scientifically' if the heat change was the cause ... but since then I have had my heat such that the water was near a boil, but not boiling and I haven't had the silvering issue since.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: vikramaditya on April 27, 2020, 03:18:34 PM
This is my first question on this forum and I am newbie so pardon if my question is silly.
I wanted to do 320ppm AgNP but since I am pure vegetarian I would not be able to use Gelatin for capping. The question is that can I use Agar Agar(vegetarian gelatin substitute) instead?
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: SaltyCornflakes on April 27, 2020, 04:40:18 PM
Vegan alternatives are digested in the stomach, so they don't work.
I would either bite the bullet and use gelatin, or just do without it and make a lower ppm.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: vikramaditya on April 27, 2020, 05:05:43 PM
Thanks for the reply. I will stick with lower 20ppm batches for now.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: imcool on April 28, 2020, 05:47:22 PM
Thanks for the reply. I will stick with lower 20ppm batches for now.
you never replied to my question, https://www.cgcsforum.org/index.php?topic=5103.0

The answer to my question is here,

https://www.cgcsforum.org/index.php?topic=5112.msg42520#msg42520



Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: cfnisbet on April 28, 2020, 07:07:52 PM
This is my first question on this forum and I am newbie so pardon if my question is silly.
I wanted to do 320ppm AgNP but since I am pure vegetarian I would not be able to use Gelatin for capping. The question is that can I use Agar Agar(vegetarian gelatin substitute) instead?
Use cinnamon tincture. It resists the stomach acids reasonably well, and you can make Colloidal Silver up to 100 ppm quite easily.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: FlyingDutchman on April 29, 2020, 01:41:45 PM
This is my first question on this forum and I am newbie so pardon if my question is silly.
I wanted to do 320ppm AgNP but since I am pure vegetarian I would not be able to use Gelatin for capping. The question is that can I use Agar Agar(vegetarian gelatin substitute) instead?
Agar-agar will not work, but Orange pectin is a strong vegan capping agent. The only drawback is the bitter taste.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: SaltyCornflakes on April 29, 2020, 02:26:15 PM
Good call FlyingDutchman, I had no idea that pectin may work. Will order that next.
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: cosanostra on April 29, 2020, 02:56:04 PM
This is my first question on this forum and I am newbie so pardon if my question is silly.
I wanted to do 320ppm AgNP but since I am pure vegetarian I would not be able to use Gelatin for capping. The question is that can I use Agar Agar(vegetarian gelatin substitute) instead?
Agar-agar will not work, but Orange pectin is a strong vegan capping agent. The only drawback is the bitter taste.
I'm using apple pectin and it's good enough
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: Patnuck on July 18, 2020, 01:00:51 AM
When trying to dilute 40 ppm colloidal silver using tap water 50/50 the resulting solution turned pinkish purple colour, tried again with filtered water from the fridge with same result. Finally diluted with steam distilled water with good results. Can someone please explain what could be the problem with the tap water. Thanks
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: cfnisbet on July 18, 2020, 01:52:40 PM
This colour change is due to the pH of the water, or (less likely) the minerals within it.

If your water is very acid, then it's going to damage the colloid. Likewise if there are any oxidisers in the water. Some types of tap or bottled water can be mixed without any issue; I saw a person try to turn Ionic Silver Oxide into silver chloride (a white cloud as the silver oxide reduces to silver chloride) under the effect of the chlorine in tap water, and he used bottled water. His demonstration failed, showing that all potable waters may be very different.

If you are unlucky enough to have very reactive tap water, then this can happen.
Title: Re: Requesting help. >>> Measuring mA and Volt Across Electrodes using Lab PS
Post by: Barra on July 20, 2020, 08:13:30 PM
Need Help Measuring and Optimizing mA and Volts Across Electrodes in adjustable Lab Power Supply Setup

Problem: I am having trouble measuring my volts/mA across my electrodes in my Lab power supply setup and was wondering if someone could help.

The goal: To run 5mA with a constant current (CC) from the PS and to adjust the voltage by adjusting the depth of the copper until I get between 10 to 15 volts. To be able to do this, I want to use my multimeter to check both voltage and mA and to adjust using my Lab PS dial and by adjusting my copper diode depth in relation to the silver.

My starting point: With a liter of water, and a 10 gauge silver anode, I am looking to achieve 5mA with 15 volts for 60 minutes to produce 20 PPM ionic silver. I start by maximizing the PS to 30 volts, insert my copper 1/2 inch, silver 1.5 inches for a 3x ratio, and keep the electrodes 1.5 inches apart. This was pulled from the forum, so please correct me if I am wrong.

I have:


Wired running multimeter in series:
+PS to MM V+ (to measure volts or A+ to measure mA), MM COM to silver + anode, copper diode- to PS-

QUESTIONS:
Title: Re: Requesting help.
Post by: gkar on July 21, 2020, 10:42:46 AM
Welcome to the forum, you're at the right place to learn. I'll see if I can help, from one rookie, to another:

If you haven't already, have a good read on the 'Articles' Forum, as well cfnisbet's excellent threads on Colloidal Silver production:
https://www.cgcsforum.org/index.php?topic=4965.0

The multimeter (MM) is connected properly, according to your description.

Does your power supply (PS) have a CC indicator light? If so, is it coming on?
The process is governed by the amperage, not the voltage. I just set my PS to maximum voltage -30VDC is fine, & the amperage to about 4-5mA {the voltage will be what it is}. Power supplies aren't designed to operate accurately at such low amperages, that's why you use a multimeter, connected in series. As long as the CC light remains constantly on, & the VDC doesn't drop below 10VDC, then you will be OK.

I leave my PS display set to maximum voltage (about 24VDC), & ignore the PS amperage rating, as mine is usually out by up to 1-2A. eg. my PS will show a 4mA rating, whereas the MM will indicate 530-570mAs. So it's always best to refer to the MM.

It is recommended to initially switch on the PS, for about 3 seconds, to gauge the mA, adjust if necessary, to attain about 5mA. Quickly retest, then do the calculation {your calculation is good}, & switch on for the Colloidal Silver production run. If you have 0mAs, then something is going on, that shouldn't.

Have you added the electrolyte? I forgot once, & had zero mA, as distilled water has virtually no impurities, it will struggle to generate a current.

Are you sure the MM hasn't blown the mA fuse? Try setting the MM to the 10A, & see you have a reading there. It will work, just be less accurate -show 0.005mA, as opposed to 500mA, when the MM is set to the mA rating.

To add an image, click on the 'Attachments and other options' below the dialogue box. You can add images, photos, etc. on your local PC, from there.

See how you go. Seems your basics are sound. If any of the forum's experts note any inconsistencies, then please correct me.