Author Topic: My first production colloidal gold  (Read 930 times)

Offline Shadsu

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My first production colloidal gold
« on: March 14, 2019, 04:46:41 AM »
Hi,
I finally try to make my colloidal gold but I wasn't so lucky..

My receipe was
240 mg salt
5 gr grape sugar ( 50%-50% glucose-fructose)
 0.3 mm gold anode, 10cm, I think for 8 submerged
5mm copper cathode, 7-8 cm submerged

because I can't heat, stir and electrolyze I decide to heat water, salt and sugars to 99c, electrolyze for 20 minutes arriving to 70c and heat again, repeating that many times till I can see a ruby red.

My power supply was 30 volt- 333ma.
I test the voltage but it was only 28 volt, when I tested it again during the electrolyze process was 25 volt, unlucky the current I don't know because my multimeter can test it till 200ma, or till 10A.
I'm sure was more than 200 ma, but measuring with 10A I can read only 0.00.

I decide to put the copper cathode inside a Teflon tube vertical cutted in 3 points, and the gold anode was all around the tube, quite completely submerged. It was more pacts all because gold anode is too thin, and it was not possible give him the right distance to the cathode , staying too much curved.

I repeat the process 6 times, but the color is only pink-red very light.
What does it mean? The ppm is too low?
I thought it could be enough 80 minutes, because the original receipe was 30-40 minutes electrolyze for 250 ml. I double all ingredients, with same current, ( maybe less, but surely more than 200 ma) , and I thought the right electrolyze time must be the double.
After 2h ( 6 times- 20 minutes) it was not ruby red, but only pinky and very light.

Do you have some idea ?
My light color depends from a low ppm? it will be ruby red with 40 ppm?
My light color which ppm does indicate?
Or maybe it depends from particle size?
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 05:31:48 AM by Shadsu »

Offline Shadsu

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Re: My first production colloidal gold
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2019, 02:45:43 PM »
I think I understood part of the problem.
I was not able to read the multimeter, and now I learn it.

My power supply works with 30 volt , but the multimeter reads 26 v and 333ma.
I don't know why but I can't give more than 100 ma, between 50- 100. I tried to make near the electrodes but it's quite the same.
When the temperature is higher it's able to give more current but never more than 130 ma.

I tried to minimize and maximize the cathode but it looks the same.
The anode is a gold wire 0.3 mm, 200 mg. I think 190 mg are submerged.

I also try an other powe supply 24 v, 1.5 A
But the electrolysis work with no more than 100 ma.

I think it must be the cathode... It needs more material to give more current.
I don't understand.

I also tried a second time with the other power supply and this time it became purple, and many particles are sedimentated.

I don't understand

Offline kephra

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Re: My first production colloidal gold
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2019, 05:19:01 PM »
Shadsu,

First, the posted formulas for making CG by electrolysis are for 250ml of water.  Clearly, your photo shows 500ml.
Second, grape sugar is not a good choice because of the fructose.
Third, use a hot plate without a stirrer, and keep it hot enough to make steam bubbles on the bottom of the beaker.  The convection currents will keep it stirred enough.

I suggest this formula if you don't have sodium citrate available.

40ppm (approx) Colloidal Gold, Electrolysis, III

250ml Hot distilled water
120 mg sodium chloride (Morton's iodized table salt ok)
400 mg Carbo-Gain (maltodextrin)
Electrolyze 350ma for 30 to 40 minutes
Note: minimize gold anode area, and use a large cathode.  Submerge more anode, and move electrodes closer together to increase current.
Colloidal Silver is only a bargain if you make it yourself.

Offline Shadsu

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Re: My first production colloidal gold
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2019, 02:29:25 AM »
Thank you for your answer :)
I bought today maltodextrine, nut I have the same problem with current, both powe supply give more than 300 ma, one 333ma and the other 1,5A... With both I have nearly the same 100 ma.

I don't understand why. I suppose it needs more anode to work to 300 ma.
The distance between electrodes has no effect, not a bigger one.
I red normally the problem is the opposite, try  adjust the current decreasing it.
Tomorrow I try with a copper anode to understand if the problem is the anode quantity submerged..180 mg are perhaps not enough
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 02:50:07 AM by Shadsu »

Offline wgpeters

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Re: My first production colloidal gold
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2019, 03:01:21 PM »
It sounds like you have current limiting power supplies.
Can you provide a link or details about the power supply you are using?
wgpeters aka Kephra

Offline Shadsu

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Re: My first production colloidal gold
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2019, 10:13:04 AM »
I attached some pictures.
I have tried to change the anode with a copper one but the situation doesn't change so much.
I tried to experiment more so and it looks like if it works better...but everything is strange.

Here are both power supplies
As follow are some experiments with the multimeter on 10 A.
To read 300 ma, it must be written 0.3.

Offline Shadsu

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Re: My first production colloidal gold
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2019, 10:25:38 AM »
With the 30 V power supply 333 ma. Gold anode

I used
1-my first light pink batch, the quantity of salt was the same of Kephra recipe 40 ma
2- my second purple batch, the quantity of salt was the same of Kephra recipe. 60 ma
3- it's only tap water plus I think 500 /1000mg . I don't know exactly. The blue ceramic 1,32 A

It's everythin really strange.
The maximum of the power supply must be 333 ma, more than 0.3 I have not to read but in salt water it's 1.32 A
In the other cases it's only 40 and 60 ... The difference between both it's possible it's the different distance between electrodes
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 10:34:10 AM by Shadsu »

Offline Shadsu

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Re: My first production colloidal gold
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2019, 10:28:21 AM »
With 24 V power supply, 1,2 A gold anode

1- pink batch 30 ma
2- purple batch 60 ma
3- water and salt 820 ma

This is also strange.
Maximum current must be  1,2A but in salt water it's only 820 ma.... The 333 ma power supply gives me more current even if it has not to do it, this one has to do it and it doesn't do it.

« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 10:37:15 AM by Shadsu »

Offline Shadsu

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Re: My first production colloidal gold
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2019, 10:30:44 AM »
With 24 v power supply , changing anode from little go,d one to a bigger copper one.

1-pink 40 ma
2- purple 140 ma
3- water and salt 1.44 A

It looks like if something changes.
In salt water it's much more current, and also in the purple batch.

« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 10:39:40 AM by Shadsu »

Offline Shadsu

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Re: My first production colloidal gold
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2019, 10:49:58 AM »
... the only clear thing it's that the current is much more in salt water.
The quantity of salt was much more.

How is it possible that for you 120 mg salt for 250 ml water are enough to use 300 ma and for me it looks to be not possible ? Surely I'm doing something wrong.

I try to make the electrodes very near, some mm and in this case the current raises, but they have to be really near and it's not possible have it in this position during heating water because of the bubble, they moves the electrodes and the risk is that they touch them.
I think it was not a good idea buy a 0.3 mm gold anode, much better 1 mm or more.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 07:23:58 PM by Shadsu »

Offline kephra

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Re: My first production colloidal gold
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2019, 02:41:14 PM »
Measure the voltage across your electrodes, and tell me.
When I did the process, I had 30 volts across the electrodes.  My power supply was rated at 36 volts and 1 amp.
Colloidal Silver is only a bargain if you make it yourself.

Offline Shadsu

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Re: My first production colloidal gold
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2019, 11:05:35 PM »
With power supply 24 v-1,2A I read 24 volt, it succeeds also I red 25, but they are most the time I red 24
With 30V-333m power supply, I read sometimes 25, sometimes 26

Offline Shadsu

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Re: My first production colloidal gold
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2019, 12:52:37 PM »
My third Production looks much better. A great thanks to everyone, in particular to Kephra!!
Thank you!!!

In your opinion the particle size and the gold concentration are ok ?


I partly solved my current problem, the temperature did a big difference.
With a distance of 0,5-1 cm I was able to reach max 220 ma, decreasing to 160 ma after ten minutes I think.
I discover that fresh water raises the current. I put it inside because of evaporation, and suddenly from 160 ma I reached 220 ma.
I thought it's really strange, also because the temperature decreased with fresh water.

Now I have something red ( I don't know if it's a good quality or not, but for the moment I'm satisfied ) I was thinking to organize me better.

I wrap the gold wire around a copper  wire , but I'm afraid that sometimes the water could touch the copper.
 Is it a good idea buy a Titan needle and wrap the gold wire around it?
Even if I submerged a little part of the needle it doesn't react with nothing, I think. is it right?

For the cathode is it better stainless steel or copper ? The copper cathode I used becomes dark.
Approximatively the proportion of quantity material between anode and cathode which has to to be?
1:3 could it be ok?
I worked till now with 1: 100 or also more, but I saw the bubbles are only in the part more near to anode, I thought it was unusefull submerged so much cathode, also because it was not really confortable work with it.

Thanks
« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 12:57:52 PM by Shadsu »

Offline Shadsu

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Re: My first production colloidal gold
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2019, 12:55:07 PM »
Other question.
How can I be sure I have not anymore gold chloride inside?
Unlucky the time is not a good meter, because the current decreases with time.

Offline kephra

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Re: My first production colloidal gold
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2019, 02:10:00 PM »
Quote
I discover that fresh water raises the current. I put it inside because of evaporation, and suddenly from 160 ma I reached 220 ma.
I thought it's really strange, also because the temperature decreased with fresh water.
By adding water, more of the electrodes are submerged.

Quote
For the cathode is it better stainless steel or copper ? The copper cathode I used becomes dark.
It does not matter.  No metal comes off the cathode, but some gold dust and any metal impurities in the water will plate onto it.

Quote
1:3 could it be ok?
Yes, thats fine.

Quote
How can I be sure I have not anymore gold chloride inside?
As long as you have enough maltodextrin, there can be no gold chloride remaining.
After you remove the electrodes, keep heating the solution for a few minutes.  Also, you can boil off any remaining chlorine to get rid of the taste.

Colloidal Silver is only a bargain if you make it yourself.