Author Topic: How much is too much reducing agent  (Read 27783 times)

Offline Dean

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Re: How much is too much reducing agent
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2016, 08:41:04 PM »
Blimey!

Just checked the ph and it's 9.8.

I used 10 drops of electrolyte. (Made by the "baking the bicarbonate" method.
I then measured as acccurately as I could 12.4grams into 100ml of water.

I have to use lyons Golden Syrup as the reducer for now.
I used 2 drops (just enough diluted to "drip / drop a single drop off the spoon.
(Didn't have a second dropper bottle)

I did this same recipe last night but after reducing I had almost zero colour change.
Got it to about 148 degrees in the microwave - tested with meat thermometer)
When I sipped it this morning it had almost zero metallic taste.

Lots to learn clearly !
You guys are awesome with your approach to this.
The best resource by a country mile!

Deano

Offline Dean

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Re: How much is too much reducing agent
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2016, 09:08:52 PM »
Pants!

4minutes in microwave and it's crystal clear but has zero colour change.
Perhaps 75 mins with my setup is just not enough.

The manual for the silver Pulser suggests 2 hours and should yield about 8- 10ppm.
But that is with no electrolyte.

 I have a bubbler going too.

The 75 minutes sounds right with ELEC. by comparison to their suggestion of 2 hours without
(Says he who knows nothing 😄) but I'm just looking at it thinking there's not enough silver in it!

Happy days!

Offline Dean

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Re: How much is too much reducing agent
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2016, 09:13:45 PM »
A haaaaaa!!!!!!
I just finished writing the last post and looked down and it's gone
Freaking yellow !!!!!!!!!

How will I know what PPM that is? Based on info above,
Would I be correct at about 10ppm?

Oh this is so funny 🙂


Offline kephra

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Re: How much is too much reducing agent
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2016, 09:41:58 PM »
Blimey!

Just checked the ph and it's 9.8.

I used 10 drops of electrolyte. (Made by the "baking the bicarbonate" method.
I then measured as acccurately as I could 12.4grams into 100ml of water.

I have to use lyons Golden Syrup as the reducer for now.
I used 2 drops (just enough diluted to "drip / drop a single drop off the spoon.
(Didn't have a second dropper bottle)

I did this same recipe last night but after reducing I had almost zero colour change.
Got it to about 148 degrees in the microwave - tested with meat thermometer)
When I sipped it this morning it had almost zero metallic taste.

Lots to learn clearly !
You guys are awesome with your approach to this.
The best resource by a country mile!

Deano
The correct weight of baked baking soda is 10.6 grams. 
Yes, you can add electrolyte afterward if your pH is too low.  It only has to be above 7 to activate the reducing agent, but 8.5 give more stability.  9.8 is too high.

You didn't say what your batch size is.  Usually, 20 drops per liter hits the sweet spot of about 8.5
Colloidal Silver is only a bargain if you make it yourself.

Offline kephra

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Re: How much is too much reducing agent
« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2016, 10:04:22 PM »
20 ppm should look like Johnsons baby shampoo.  10 ppm would be a lot lighter.
Colloidal Silver is only a bargain if you make it yourself.

Offline Dean

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Re: How much is too much reducing agent
« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2016, 10:27:18 PM »
Ok so,
1. Your absolutely correct Kephra.
My mistake, yes, that's what I ultimately mixed at. 10.6.
I saved 12.4 ready to mix but then realised you have different weights for different products.
I did do 10.6 in the end.

2. Just started another batch and have taken stats this time.
Your reply above may mean I've buggered this one up before it's even started!

Recipe:

500ml DW (PPM 001)
Initial PH 5.7
10 drops of electrolyte
Starting PH 10.8

Think I'm going to have to add 1 drop at a time and test with each one to find
Out how many actually gets me to 8.5

Q1. Should I try to hit the ph of 8.5 before I start the run
Or Will the ph drop as the run goes on leaving me with a lower ph by run end?
Q2. If my ph is too high by run end can I somehow correct it before adding reducer ?
Q3. Does a higher ph wreck the batch in some way or does it
Just make it darker?

I'm trying to make the next batch 20ppm so I'm running it for 150minutes.
Think that's OK. Though with a single 9volt battery and no way to control current,
I'm not sure that this will be consistent. (Or unhealthy to consume in some way)

Thanks for your input Kephra. Really appreciate the helping hand.

Lastly, with a small generator like this, will I likely maintain correct particle size as I'm only aiming for 20ppm
Or am I pushing this setup and will get a bad batch as a result?
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 10:37:43 PM by Dean »

Offline kephra

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Re: How much is too much reducing agent
« Reply #36 on: October 22, 2016, 10:36:32 PM »
Dean,
Quote
Q1. Should I try to hit the ph of 8.5 before I start the run
Yes, but I am wondering how you are measuring your pH.  10 drops will not produce that high of a pH.  I think your meter or test strips are wrong.  To move 1 pH, you have to use 10 times as much sodium carbonate, and you cannot be that far off.
Quote
Or Will the ph drop as the run goes on leaving me with a lower ph by run end?
The pH will stay about the same
Quote
Q2. If my ph is too high by run end can I somehow correct it before adding reducer ?
No, you cannot reduce it except by adding acid which would be a bad thing
Quote
Q3. Does a higher ph wreck the batch in some way or does it
Just make it darker?
It might make it less stable over time, but I don't think your pH is that high.  I suggest using 10 drops and forget your pH measurement.

Also, I doubt the silver pulsers calibration is correct.  Unless using a constant current generator, its extremely difficult to measure the  actual ppm of ionic silver.  The guy who made it probably stuck a TDS meter in his solution and it read 8 to 10.  TDS meters read way low on ionic silver.  So you can't accurately know your ppm.  Theoretically they should read about half, but I cannot verify that they actually do.

I think you have found that complete reduction of the silver ions takes a little time :)  This is normal, and hotter makes it go faster.
Colloidal Silver is only a bargain if you make it yourself.

Offline Dean

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Re: How much is too much reducing agent
« Reply #37 on: October 22, 2016, 10:47:07 PM »
Yeeeeeeees !
 It's actually gone a lovely colour but a little darker than you describe
Especially for 10ppm (or there abouts) not sure why that is.

I am using this (500ml) within a few days so not too worried about stability
For a long time. Would just be nice to know if have a "benifical batch" even if it's not
Perfect yet.

I buffered my ph meter and it was accurate at 4 & 7 then put it in the water and it hit 5.7
Then immediately added 10 drops of Electrolyte, immediately tested it again and it jumped to 10.8.
I don't even turn it off between times.

Will take your advice on this though.

All very exciting 😁

Offline kephra

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Re: How much is too much reducing agent
« Reply #38 on: October 22, 2016, 11:11:47 PM »
The maximum pH for a saturated solution of sodium carbonate is 10.4, so I know you pH meter is not correct.
Colloidal Silver is only a bargain if you make it yourself.

Offline WayneInPHX

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Re: How much is too much reducing agent
« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2016, 09:47:32 PM »
I buffered my ph meter...
The BEST way I have found to measure PH is by using:

Micro Essential Lab MF-1608 Hydrion Microfine Short Range pH Test Paper Dispenser, 6.0 - 9.5 pH

 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0045I6K20/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I have a PH meter.  It is a pain in the A!  For LESS than the price of the storage and cal solutions you can get the hydrion paper.  It WORKS.
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Offline Dean

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Re: How much is too much reducing agent
« Reply #40 on: November 24, 2016, 05:29:45 PM »
Agreed.

I now have access to both so will be comparing as I go and finding the best (or at least looking for a consistent discrepancy that I could build into my digital readings

Offline kephra

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Re: How much is too much reducing agent
« Reply #41 on: November 24, 2016, 05:34:54 PM »
If you measure your sodium carbonate correctly, you don't need to measure you pH every time.
If you have an electrical conductivity meter, you should read about 200 us conductivity with  1 ml of 1M sodium carbonate per liter.
Even if you are off by a factor of 2 either way, it only changes the pH by .3 points.
Colloidal Silver is only a bargain if you make it yourself.

Offline Bobby

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Re: How much is too much reducing agent
« Reply #42 on: November 24, 2016, 05:51:20 PM »
Dean,

   On the CGCS Forum's main page go to / Uses of Colliodal Metals / Colloidal Silver around the house / Colloidal Silver Nebulizer started by edwire. You will fine good information there plus links to similar uses of colloidal silver for colds, congestion, asthma, etc...  you should feel better fast.  Let us know how you do. Good luck!

Bobby

 P.S. I meant to post this to another thread.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2016, 06:07:10 PM by Bobby »
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Offline Bobby

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Re: How much is too much reducing agent
« Reply #43 on: November 24, 2016, 05:55:24 PM »
Kephra,

  Does the ppm meter you sell at the SilverTron Store measure the conductivity?

Bobby
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power"  Abraham Lincoln

Offline Dean

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Re: How much is too much reducing agent
« Reply #44 on: November 24, 2016, 06:57:20 PM »
Got it Bobby, no worries.
Will take a look when I get home :-)