Author Topic: Acid Tests by RickinWI for Colloidal Silver  (Read 7686 times)

Offline RickinWI

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Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2015, 05:28:01 PM »
Have read up a little about gelatine. If it holds up against the stomach juices and makes it to the small intestines, very good. There the gelatine is digested by protease enzymes from the pancreas. If there is any glucose coating left, amylase enzymes will also digest that to finally free the Colloidal Silver particle from any protective coatings, ready to do the job it's meant to do. At least that's the way I understand it...

That's good news.  I think the pancreas secretes into the small intestine toward the beginning end in the first couple of feet. That should give plenty of time for all the gelatin to be removed & the silver particles to be absorbed.

Thinking outloud about the digestive process: Isn't there something that is also secreted toward the beginning end of the small intestine that is supposed to neutralize the acid remaining from the stomach? I wonder what that substance is & if I could get some of that to check the capped colloidal silver with?
So many VARIABLES & so little TIME.

Offline Gene

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Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2015, 03:14:05 AM »
Muriatic acid is sold in Home Depot and Lowes in the US - $6 and change a gallon.  IIRC, its somewhere between 30% and 40% concentration.  The other thing about HCL is it fumes, even at this concentration, so if you weren't expecting it, don't be alarmed.  Its normal.

And if for some reason you want sulfuric acid and can live with I think 30%, go buy some battery acid.  Comes in a 1 quart box I think but a friend bought a 5 gallon box from a Napa auto parts store for something like $30 recently.  In case you're curious he's doing some copper electroplating and needed the sulfuric acid for the plating bath.

Neither obviously is food grade.

And I'm laughing.  I figured out exactly how good muriatic acid is to clean the toilet years ago, even get the hard water and iron stains out.  You only need like an ounce of it in maybe 12oz of water, pour that into the bowl, swish it around with a toilet brush (gently - don't go splashing it around) and then let it sit about half an hour to an hour depending on how bad the stains are, toilet brush it again, flush and its squeaky clean.  Nothing else I've tried does nearly as good a job, especially given how little cost is involved.

Just so its said, ALWAYS wear protective goggles when working with acid and ALWAYS pour the acid SLOWLY into cold water to dilute, NEVER the other way around unless you want to be running off to the ER - very good chance adding water to acid, its going to splatter and then it gets ugly.

Offline RickinWI

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Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2015, 06:00:32 AM »
The thing is, with Muriatic acid off the shelf, would you know it's Molarity? (and therefore have some idea of it's pH) I am guessing that might be MUCH stronger than the stuff I have. Maybe there would be a way to figure out what dilution to come close to the pH 1.0 -- 2.0 range? 
I think that would translate to 0.1 M ---0.01 M

The Gel-cap colloidal silver holds up nicely against 0.1 M HCl but I doubt it would fare so well vs 10 M or 100M HCl. 

The place I bought it from said that for stronger Molarity HCl acid they require you to have an exhaust hood & be an accredited educational or research facility.
I doubt if they would have sold me 10M or even 1M, but luckily the 0.1M was perfect for what I needed. At the same time I bought pure Maltose from that company too. Strangely enough I had to get an "exemption" to be able to purchase that also  ::)  No clue why. Surprised I didn't have to request an exemption for the eye droppers I ordered at same time. 

I knew to pour the acid into the colloidal silver for testing & never even got a whif of Chlorine. Probably because mine is so weak, relatively speaking. (but still a little stronger than stomach acid)

As Gene said, be very careful when playing with this stuff.
So many VARIABLES & so little TIME.

Offline mraluma415

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Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2015, 08:20:35 AM »
this was a good experiment. 

There is no doubt gelatin gets digested as a protein by either, HCI, enzymes or both. So no worries there. But what state is the silver particle cluster in once it loses it protein capping agent?  Is it now an ion? This is a reasonable question.

I have been using gum arabic in a similar fashion that gelatin is used, along with green tea extract (rather than cinnamon extract). I put about a gram of gum arabic per liter of 20ppm colloidal silver. This is called a "protecting colloid", and has been used in research of colloids for many years. It can be found at specialty health food stores, but is most easily attainable online.

A lot of us have had some pretty amazing results using the various formulas of colloidal silver on this forum. I think the digestion of colloidal silver is still not quite understood, and may be much more efficient than we think. Here is some food for thought:

"As far as how long food stays in your stomach it depends on what that food is.
Some foods that contain simple carbohydrates (such as sugar or white bread) are relatively fast to digest compared to more complex carbohydrates or proteins.
Foods contain a variety of different levels of carbohydrates, fats, oils, protein, fiber, etc. all of which have different mechanisms and rates of digestion. If for example you eat some trail mix, the chocolate chips will be digested rapidly, the fruit will take longer, and the nuts could take several hours. The range in digestion times is large: if the stomach is empty water will leave immediately and go to the intestines, whereas meats such as beef and pork can take upwards of 4 hours."

So apparently, if you drink liquids, they pass almost immediately into the small intestine, which has a pH of 8.0. Any protein you ingest will have to hang around the stomach longer as it will be treated as a food. This would subject protein capped particles to a much longer time in the acid of the stomach.  The above excerpt would explain why a lot of people get great results using the formulas on this forum, and also why Kephra is not blue.  :P

curious to hear some thoughts on this.
"The art of healing comes from nature, not from the physician. Therefore the physician must start from nature, with an open mind." - Paracelsus

Offline cfnisbet

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Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2015, 08:42:51 AM »
...Just so its said, ALWAYS wear protective goggles when working with acid and ALWAYS pour the acid SLOWLY into cold water to dilute, NEVER the other way around unless you want to be running off to the ER - very good chance adding water to acid, its going to splatter and then it gets ugly.
Even today, I remember the little rhyme I was taught at school, (and forgot to put it into my post, so thanks Gene);

"Do as you oughta, add acid to water".

Applies to those of us still working with Sodium Hydroxide, too.

Offline kephra

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Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2015, 01:32:12 PM »
The thing is, with Muriatic acid off the shelf, would you know it's Molarity? (and therefore have some idea of it's pH) I am guessing that might be MUCH stronger than the stuff I have. Maybe there would be a way to figure out what dilution to come close to the pH 1.0 -- 2.0 range? 
I think that would translate to 0.1 M ---0.01 M
...
HCL is a gas, and the maximum concentration you can make is about 36% because of its solubility in water.  At 36%, its pH is about -1  (note negative pH)
The maximum strength for hydrochloric acid is then about 10 Molar.  (Molecular weight of HCL gas is approx 36)
pH is the negative logarithm of the hydrogen ion concentration (molarity)
From that, you can calculate the molarity to get a given pH as:
1/(10^pH)

Example  to get a pH of 2 using 36% acid: 1/(10^2) = 1/100 = 0.01 Molar.  0.01 Molar HCL must have 36*0.01 grams of HCL gas per liter or 0.36 gram of HCL.

Next you have to calculate the amount of 10 Molar acid (36%) per liter to get a pH of +2
Amount of acid  (gms of HCL needed for wanted pH)/(gms of HCL per liter of stock acid) * 1000 ml = 0.36 /360 = 1 ml

Here is another example, to get a pH of 2.5 using 1 Molar acid:
Molarity of a pH of 2.5 = 1/(10 ^ 2.5) = 1/316 = 0.0032 Molar.
Amount of 1 Molar acid to make 1 Liter of pH 2.5 would then be (0.0032/1)* 1000 = 3.2 ml
Amount of 0.1 Molar acid to make 1 Liter of ph 2.5 would be (0.0032/0.1) * 1000 = 32 ml

These calculations assume starting with pH 7 water, which is probably not the case because of dissolved CO2, but the difference in final pH is small for ending pH values below 3.  IE:  for exact results you have to include the acidity of the carbonic acid already in the water.


Colloidal Silver is only a bargain if you make it yourself.

Offline Gene

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Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2015, 07:14:44 PM »
According to the jug, HD issue muriatic acid is 20 degrees Baume, 31.45% HCL.  So its pretty close to the maximum concentration Kephra stated earlier.  And I can attest to the fact that it indeed does fume when you unscrew the cap on the jug.

Apparently another use for this (for real) is to quickly adjust the PH of a swimming pool (says so right on the product information).

I think what the place Rick got his HCL from was saying is that above the concentrate he got, the stuff probably starts to fume.  Those fumes are concentrated HCL and should not be allowed to collect in a confined space, so enter the use of a fume hood and protective gear.  Basically, they're being restrictive to protect their own butts (like usual) in restricting sale of more concentrated even given you can buy muriatic acid cheaply pretty much in any good hardware or home box store, no questions asked.

Offline RickinWI

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Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2015, 09:15:05 PM »
So then from what Kephra said it looks like you would need only about 1.2 ml of your Muriatic acid in a Liter of DW to get you close to pH 2.0

Wow, that stuff must be wicked strong.
So many VARIABLES & so little TIME.

Offline Gene

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Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2015, 12:08:58 AM »
Strong enough and battery acid is around the same percentage solution.  The difference is that sulfuric acid (H2SO4 if I'm remembering my chemistry correctly) isn't a gas like HCL so it doesn't fume.  At 30-35% muriatic acid does.  And those fumes are HCL so be careful.

Offline Stagno

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Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2015, 03:54:21 PM »

Thinking outloud about the digestive process: Isn't there something that is also secreted toward the beginning end of the small intestine that is supposed to neutralize the acid remaining from the stomach? I wonder what that substance is & if I could get some of that to check the capped colloidal silver with?

  If I remember my biology from collage correctly the substance secreted into the small intestine to alkalise the acid is sodium bicarbonate,so that shouldn't hurt the colloidal silver one bit  :)
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Offline FromTheDen

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Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
« Reply #25 on: May 24, 2015, 05:12:40 PM »
Kephra,
The www.nanocomposix.eu reference toward the beginning of this thread (under the Particle Stability sub-title) states,
Quote
Silver nanoparticles are also susceptible to light (especially ultraviolet light) and should be stored in the dark.
It seems like your study/experience has been that while ionic silver is sensitive to light, colloidal silver is not.

Would you mind elaborating on light sensitivity?

Offline RickinWI

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Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2015, 05:21:03 PM »
@ Stango:  Actually I tried adding Baking Soda to Cinnamon Reduced colloidal silver and I posted a pic of the result in this thread:
http://www.cgcsforum.org/index.php?topic=2164.15

Theoretically the Cinn Reduced should hold up better than Glucose reduced colloidal silver since the Cinn also caps the particles (or caps them better than Glucose). Obviously from the pic, not good enough.

I will try the baking soda against Glucose Reduced & then Gel-Capped colloidal silver next time I make a batch. (All out right now)   Will follow up on this though.

Thanks for letting us know it's sod bicarb. Makes sense since that seems like something the body could make to neutralize acid.
So many VARIABLES & so little TIME.

Offline Stagno

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Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2015, 10:06:15 PM »
Interesting results. I imagine the colour is from the particles agglomerating (pls correct me if I'm wrong). Kephra's gelatine capped seemed to hold up ok though,will be interesting to see how your experiment turns out. 

I've had a similar thing happen when adding borax to silver when making creams,it starts to turn red,but only sometimes and sometimes it stays clear and yellow,this is with glucose reduced and it has been consistent with different batches one batch works fine and another turns red. I have no idea why some batches do and some don't as they're all made consistently the same with the same apparatus for the same time etc.  Scratches head  ???
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Offline PeterXXL

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Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2015, 12:16:19 AM »
At... http://biorelevant.com/fassif-fessif-fassgf-dissolution-media/fasted-fed-state-simulated-intestinal-gastric-fluid/how-to-make/

there's a formula for making simulated gastric fluid. And if we don't bother about the pepsin (an enzyme in the stomach fluid) the formula for making 500 ml simulated gastric fluid is as follows:

Prepare HCl/NaCl solution
Dissolve:
1.000 g of NaCl,
in about 0.450 L of purified water.
Adjust the pH to 1.6 with HCl.
Make up to volume (0.500 L) with purified water at room temperature.

But since the enzyme pepsin degrades all proteins, including gelatin, we need to add pepsin as well. And according to http://biology.clc.uc.edu/courses/bio105/digestiv.htm Quote: "containing 50 to 300 µg pepsin/mL" End quote. This mean that we have to add 25 to 150 mg pepsin to the above 500 ml.

Also, according to Wikipedia... Quote: "Pepsin is most active in acidic environments between 37 °C and 42 °C" End quote. So we need to warn the solution to body temperature before test.

Both hydrochloric acid and pepsin can be bought on the net.

fishing4fun

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Re: Acid Tests by RickinWI
« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2015, 01:39:37 AM »
You guys are sure making progress with this acid tests and information, i really like what Rick has done along with the help of others here, its great stuff to read except i feel like the only one here with a iq under 100  :D