Author Topic: Colloidal Silver reduced with Maltose and capped with Gelatine  (Read 9915 times)

Offline PeterXXL

  • Expert
  • Participant
  • ***
  • Posts: 502
  • Likes: 10

Hi!


About a week ago I made a 250 ml batch of 500 ppm colloidal silver that was reduced with Maltose and capped with Gelatin, electrolysis using 15 mA constant current for 125 minutes, 0.2 ml 1 mol-sodium carbonate, constant stirring and heating around 90 degree Celsius.


After dilluting it down to 20 ppm, the result can be seen here.


http://oi62.tinypic.com/34nobw0.jpg


Now after a week, it's still very clear. And from now on I will use Maltose instead of Glucose as my preferred reducing agent.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2015, 11:26:12 PM by PeterXXL »

Offline kephra

  • The older I get, the better I was
  • Administrator
  • Participant
  • *****
  • Posts: 7627
  • Likes: 108
  • Illegitimi Non Carborundum
Re: Colloidal Silver reduced with Maltose and capped with Gelatine
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2015, 11:25:52 PM »
Yes that looks very good. 
Colloidal Silver is only a bargain if you make it yourself.

fishing4fun

  • Guest
Re: Colloidal Silver reduced with Maltose and capped with Gelatine
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2015, 01:14:01 AM »
That is quite amazing peter could you tell me where you get the maltose?
The chaga experiment i am doing now looks just like your finished product when i first add it in.
Also what do you guys use as a stabilizer once your silver is done? can't seem to find any specifics on that yet.

Offline wgpeters

  • Kephra's other account
  • Expert
  • Participant
  • ***
  • Posts: 634
  • Likes: 75
    • SilverTron Support
Re: Colloidal Silver reduced with Maltose and capped with Gelatine
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2015, 01:15:32 AM »
peter used gelatin.



A person's worth is solely determined by what he does for others.

fishing4fun

  • Guest
Re: Colloidal Silver reduced with Maltose and capped with Gelatine
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2015, 01:28:20 AM »
I get a little mixed up at times, like when people use the cinnamon method i thought the cinnamon was like a stabilizer just like chaga extract.
But yea gelatine seems to be a winner for sure.

Offline RickinWI

  • Expert
  • Participant
  • ***
  • Posts: 658
  • Likes: 6
Re: Colloidal Silver reduced with Maltose and capped with Gelatine
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2015, 03:51:09 AM »
Actually Maltose has been my preferred reducer for a few months now.  If I make a big batch of 20 PPM IS and split it into 4 sub batches and then reduce them with different sugar type reducers here is my result:

The Karo, Fructose & Dextrose (Glucose) Reduced colloidal silver all look exactly the same (very nice, as long as I am using between 1.0 ml and 1.2 ml of 1 Molar electrolyte per Liter). The Maltose reduced is a slightly darker shade of yellow. To the naked eye they all look crystal clear but when a strong focused beam flashlight is pointed through the jars you can see a definite difference between the Maltose Reduced colloidal silver and the other 3. (Maltose having the least turbidity) The other 3 have the same amount of turbidity as each other. Not bad, but not as crystal clear as the Malt.

I have done this experiment numerous times with the same result as long as the electrolyte amount is close to the range I mentioned. If you use way more, or way less electrolyte then the results are WAY different (long story).

I now Gel-Cap all colloidal silver for drinking and when finished my 20 PPM Maltose Reduced & Gelatin capped colloidal silver looks very much like the pic Peter linked. Mine is possibly a hair lighter shade of yellow since I am using a touch more electrolyte.
So many VARIABLES & so little TIME.

SanchoPanza

  • Guest
Re: Colloidal Silver reduced with Maltose and capped with Gelatine
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2015, 04:14:45 AM »
Rick, where do you get maltose from?
And what temperature do you run at for electrolysis, reduction, and this capping stuff?

Thanks.

-Sancho

SanchoPanza

  • Guest
Re: Colloidal Silver reduced with Maltose and capped with Gelatine
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2015, 04:16:55 AM »

Hi!


About a week ago I made a 250 ml batch of 500 ppm colloidal silver that was reduced with Maltose and capped with Gelatin, electrolysis using 15 mA constant current for 125 minutes, 0.2 ml 1 mol-sodium carbonate, constant stirring and heating around 90 degree Celsius.


After dilluting it down to 20 ppm, the result can be seen here.


http://oi62.tinypic.com/34nobw0.jpg


Now after a week, it's still very clear. And from now on I will use Maltose instead of Glucose as my preferred reducing agent.


That looks really clear and bright, Nice!
I'm curious about maltose now.

-Sancho

Offline RickinWI

  • Expert
  • Participant
  • ***
  • Posts: 658
  • Likes: 6
Re: Colloidal Silver reduced with Maltose and capped with Gelatine
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2015, 07:05:10 AM »
Rick, where do you get maltose from?
And what temperature do you run at for electrolysis, reduction, and this capping stuff?

Thanks.

-Sancho
 

I got it from the same place & at the same time that I got the 1/10 M HCl acid that I used for testing. It's called Carolina Biological Supply Co. (www.Carolina.com)
I ordered over the phone because for both those items it was necessary for the person taking my order to get "special permission" or whatever. I can kind of understand that for the HCl acid but have no clue why that was necessary for the Maltose. It's "Lab Grade" Maltose Monohydrate.  They recently sent me an 1100 page catalog that I better not look through because I'm sure there are hundreds of dollars worth of "stuff" in there that I would probably want.

My normal way of making 20 PPM colloidal silver for any sugar type reducer is to do the electrolysis @ just over 82*F (aprox 28* C) and then reduce it as soon as the electrolysis is finished. That way it's all reduced by the time it gets down to 75*F.

Before I started Gel-Capping at the end of the process I did not add any more heat at all. Doing it that way with Karo or Dextrose it always reduced fairly quickly for me (like 5 or 10 minutes). Maltose is different though. At those low temps it takes hours to fully reduce so I would put it in the warmest place in the house overnight & let it reduce slowly.

Now that I am Gel-Capping at the end it is necessary to get up close to boiling and then add the Gelatin. So I have started doing tests to see if I can just reduce it hot with Maltose and not loose any of the clarity. So far so good. Tried it with one batch so far. Split it in 2 and reduced 1/2 the normal overnight way with Maltose. The other half I added the Maltose & then got it up near boiling which reduced it quickly. Both seemed to be equal clarity but will have to do this a few times before I am sure.  It looks like I will be able to just reduce it hot with the Maltose, wait a little to make sure all reduced & then get it even hotter to add the gelatin.

BTW: I am not claiming that this is the "best" procedure. There are many other choices as far as temp that people have done well with. For my setup I seem to get the best results (color & clarity) from doing the electrolysis cool (82*F).

Also BTW: Using Maltose is a trade off. I mentioned that it does turn out slightly darker than Karo or Dextrose reduced colloidal silver (all else being equal) so that indicates slightly larger avg particle size (a bad thing). I am willing to make this tradeoff to get the extra clarity but in reality I am splitting hairs and it could be argued that the trade off isn't worth it.

The more experiments I did the more I realized just how good Karo is as as reducer. When I was playing around with higher amounts of electrolyte, the Karo Reduced colloidal silver held up (stability wise) much better than either pure Dextrose or pure Fructose Reduced colloidal silver. Quite surprising since Karo is about 50-50 Dextrose & Fructose (with salt & Vanilla added). I figured that either Dextrose or Fructose would have to be superior to Karo but if they are, my experiments sure didn't find that to be the case. (Pure Dextrose powder will reduce a little more quickly than Karo if speed is the objective though.)

The only time Karo does not perform well is if your pH is too low (not enough electrolyte). Then Karo or Dextrose or Fructose will produce a dark cloudy turbid mess. Have never tried that with Maltose but my guess is that it would also turn out bad.
So many VARIABLES & so little TIME.

Offline PeterXXL

  • Expert
  • Participant
  • ***
  • Posts: 502
  • Likes: 10
Re: Colloidal Silver reduced with Maltose and capped with Gelatine
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2015, 10:02:09 AM »
RickinWI: I also regard the Maltose reduced colloidal silver to be clearer than when using Glucose. But a big difference, is that it was possible to make a 500 ppm batch of colloidal silver with Maltose (and Gelatine) withut problem.

SanchoPanza: I bought the Maltose from eBay (a seller from Germany).

SanchoPanza

  • Guest
Re: Colloidal Silver reduced with Maltose and capped with Gelatine
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2015, 12:20:01 PM »
Thank you both.
Color and clarity are my main objectives.
Ease and "forgiveness" of production is a secondary concern.
Speed is least important to me.
It seems cinnamon is forgiving and easiest, karo  is a bit ph sensitive, and maltose the clearest?
I haven't started thinking about capping much, but It sure seems like a good idea, based on Rick's experiments.
Thanks again.
-Sancho

Offline kephra

  • The older I get, the better I was
  • Administrator
  • Participant
  • *****
  • Posts: 7627
  • Likes: 108
  • Illegitimi Non Carborundum
Re: Colloidal Silver reduced with Maltose and capped with Gelatine
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2015, 12:48:29 PM »
Sancho:  Capping is the same as stabilizing. 
Some reagents are reducing agents, some are stabilizing agents, and some are both.
Some are stronger stabilizers than others.  Glucose is a weak stabilizer and strong reducing agent.  Maltodextrin is stronger than glucose as a stabilizer.  Gelatin is a very strong stabilizer, but weak reducing agent if at all.  Polyphenols as in cinnamon are both and somewhere in the middle.
Colloidal Silver is only a bargain if you make it yourself.

SanchoPanza

  • Guest
Re: Colloidal Silver reduced with Maltose and capped with Gelatine
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2015, 01:24:43 PM »
Excellent Kephra, thanks for the explanation.
I was looking for a forum glossary, to understand if some of these words, (reactions), had more than one meaning.
I now understand stabilizing and capping as the same thing.
I'm under the impression that stabilizing is important for long term storage, and capping helps to get the silver past the stomach acid.

So, the gelatin process mostly adds some extra "capping" then?
I assume that it's the different molecular structure of each sugar type that determines it's effects?
Fascinating!

-Sancho

Offline kephra

  • The older I get, the better I was
  • Administrator
  • Participant
  • *****
  • Posts: 7627
  • Likes: 108
  • Illegitimi Non Carborundum
Re: Colloidal Silver reduced with Maltose and capped with Gelatine
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2015, 01:37:34 PM »
Glossary: http://www.cgcsforum.org/index.php?topic=1294.0

See Ionic Stabilizer, Capping Agent, Steric Stabilizer.
Colloidal Silver is only a bargain if you make it yourself.

Offline RickinWI

  • Expert
  • Participant
  • ***
  • Posts: 658
  • Likes: 6
Re: Colloidal Silver reduced with Maltose and capped with Gelatine
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2015, 04:21:07 PM »
RickinWI: I also regard the Maltose reduced colloidal silver to be clearer than when using Glucose. But a big difference, is that it was possible to make a 500 ppm batch of colloidal silver with Maltose (and Gelatine) withut problem.

So, if you use the exact same procedure but substitute pure Dextrose for Maltose it does not work (as well)?
So many VARIABLES & so little TIME.