Author Topic: 40 PPM Colloidal Silver, gel-capped and glucose reduced  (Read 4245 times)

Offline Argentum

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40 PPM Colloidal Silver, gel-capped and glucose reduced
« on: July 03, 2015, 04:04:25 PM »
Figured it was time to move up to higher ppm, having made several successful batches of 20 ppm (non-capped). One thing with the 40 ppm colloidal silver is that it is slightly darker in color. Even diluted to 20 ppm with distilled water. In the picture the measuring cup on the left is diluted to 20 ppm, the bottle on the right is the 40 ppm colloidal silver.

This is on a windowsill with natural light from behind and the camera flash from the front. Although, that picture was taken yesterday, now looking at the bottles the 20 ppm diluted colloidal silver is lighter in color. Difficult to get good pictures that show the real color.

Here is how I made it, recipe:

0.4 grams knox gelatine
large pinch of glucose (sweet & low)
1 qt DW
10 drops sodium carbonate solution

Large silver anode, small copper cathode

Process:

Placed 1 qt mason jar in a pot on the stove (cold to start), added gelatine and let sit for a few minutes, then stirred in.
Added sodium carbonate and glucose, turned on the heat to the double boiler.

Set up electrodes and stirrer up top of mason jar. Adjusted for about 15 volts across the cell, current at 5 mA (regulated).

As the water in the pot heated up to about 85*C, turned down the stove top heat.  Also as the cell heated up the voltage dropped, so adjusted the cathode to keep it in the 14 - 16 volt range.

After 2 hours shut it down and left the colloidal silver to cool. The next day (yesterday) some was diluted to 20 ppm and the picture taken. The colloidal silver is crystal clear, just a tad darker then I expected.

Argentum

Offline RickinWI

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Re: 40 PPM Colloidal Silver, gel-capped and glucose reduced
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2015, 06:27:15 PM »
Looks fine. If you wanted it to turn out a lighter shade of yellow you could add more electrolyte. You added 10 drops. You could increase that to 20 drops (1 ml.) If your electrolyte is 1 Molar.

For 40 PPM you might want 0.5 gm gelatin & if you wanted to try 80 PPM then you'd have to up the gelatin to about 1 gm.

That's nice that you can stir it from the top, allowing you to add the heat from below. What type of apparatus is that?
« Last Edit: July 03, 2015, 06:39:03 PM by RickinWI »
So many VARIABLES & so little TIME.

Offline Argentum

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Re: 40 PPM Colloidal Silver, gel-capped and glucose reduced
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2015, 11:52:47 PM »
Looks fine. If you wanted it to turn out a lighter shade of yellow you could add more electrolyte. You added 10 drops. You could increase that to 20 drops (1 ml.) If your electrolyte is 1 Molar.

Worth trying, once I get the mason jar cell clean I'll run another batch. With the darker color colloidal silver being OK it isn't important to lighten it.

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For 40 PPM you might want 0.5 gm gelatin & if you wanted to try 80 PPM then you'd have to up the gelatin to about 1 gm.

A little more gelatine shouldn't hurt.

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That's nice that you can stir it from the top, allowing you to add the heat from below. What type of apparatus is that?

I have a small build thread here:

http://www.cgcsforum.org/index.php?topic=2210.0

The fan motor on top spins a thin PVC square stock. However, I don't like the doing this with high water temperatures. Need to get something in PTFE and hang it from the spinner.

Argentum


Offline PeterXXL

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Re: 40 PPM Colloidal Silver, gel-capped and glucose reduced
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2015, 07:49:02 PM »
You never wrote how much (volume) your batch was. You wrote 1 qt. How much is that in liter or milliliter? Please note, that all countries in the world except US uses the metric system, so by referring to the US system of measurement, all of us who are not located in the US, or of american origin, find it problematic to "translate" it to the metric equivalent.

If it was 1 liter (1000 ml) then I believe than 10 drops of 1-mol sodium carbonate is not enough, as this is equal to about 0.5 ml. I strongly suggest all to buy plastic syringes that can measure up to 1.0 ml, like this one...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51JtPD2yeVL._SL1000_.jpg

...and that we measure in ml (milliliters) instead of drops (as a drop can be of very different size and volume). It should be possible to buy them at the nearest Pharmacy.

For 1 liter (1000 ml) water, 1.0 ml of 1-mol sodium carbonate is needed and should also be enough, unless you want to raise the pH-level

When it comes to Gelatin, I believe that the 0.4 gram (400 mg) you used is enough. But Gelatin is not one single defined chemical substance but a mix of proteins and peptides with a molar mass that differs from source to source. I have used 200 mg (0.2 gram) to make 250 ml of 500 ppm batches recently, which seem to be enough. But it only confirms that the Gelatin that I have bought have that quality.

Anyway, your batch seem to be of good quality. And the somewhat darker yellow might confirm that it's actually a higher concentration, as neither glucose nor gelatin will make the solution darker (like cinnamon and tannic acid do).  So I suggest that you connect the electrodes to a Multimeter and measure the current to confirm that the current regulator actually limts the current to 5 mA.

Offline Argentum

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Re: 40 PPM Colloidal Silver, gel-capped and glucose reduced
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2015, 04:03:42 PM »
One quart is a hair under a liter, about .946 L equals a quart. Being that they are almost the same volume, I treat them as the same. Another way to look at it, as I was shooting for 40 ppm, is that with 2 hours at 5 mA, a quart would end up at 42.3 ppm. Which at this time doesn't matter to me.

The other issue is, how much does the 1-quart mason jar really hold? As I'll be cleaning the film out of it today I'll also measure the volume of the jar. I should be more accurate in making colloidal silver. I was in the past when I started out making smaller batches (300 ml).

For the sodium carbonate, it has been posted here that between 10 and 20 drops (.5ml - 1 ml) of 1 mole solution is good to go for a liter of DW. I do have some small syringes. That is a good idea to use a syringe rather then drops, easy enough. I'll up the dose in the next batch, likely try .75 ml per liter.

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your batch seem to be of good quality. And the somewhat darker yellow might confirm that it's actually a higher concentration

It was the darker yellow of the diluted colloidal silver that threw me. I was expecting it to be a more yellow color such as the straight 20 ppm colloidal silver I had made in the past. But then again I've seen others here post the same thing, that it turns out slightly darker, a more amber or honey color.

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measure the current to confirm that the current regulator actually limts the current to 5 mA.
 

I always do this at the beginning once the cell is going. Just to make sure that the electronics didn't die. Between that and checking the voltage across the electrodes on a regular basis I figure it is good to go.

Argentum

P.S. your work with the stomach acid is superb.


Offline RickinWI

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Re: 40 PPM Colloidal Silver, gel-capped and glucose reduced
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2015, 05:28:06 PM »
@ Argentum, I can't say much as far as making higher PPM colloidal silver because so far all I have made is one batch of 40 PPM.

BUT for 20 PPM colloidal silver I can guarantee this: If you make one batch with 0.5 ml electrolyte in a Liter of DW and reduce with any sugar type reducer (Karo, Dextrose [Glucose], Maltose, Fructose, etc) AND then you make a second identical batch but put in 1.0 ml electrolyte and use the same reducer as first batch, then the second batch will turn out a lighter shade of yellow and will have better clarity (lack of turbidity).
So many VARIABLES & so little TIME.

Offline Argentum

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Re: 40 PPM Colloidal Silver, gel-capped and glucose reduced
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2015, 06:47:26 PM »
@ Argentum, I can't say much as far as making higher PPM colloidal silver because so far all I have made is one batch of 40 PPM.

BUT for 20 PPM colloidal silver I can guarantee this: If you make one batch with 0.5 ml electrolyte in a Liter of DW and reduce with any sugar type reducer (Karo, Dextrose [Glucose], Maltose, Fructose, etc) AND then you make a second identical batch but put in 1.0 ml electrolyte and use the same reducer as first batch, then the second batch will turn out a lighter shade of yellow and will have better clarity (lack of turbidity).

Sounds good, I'll be using more. I am also going to mix up a new batch as I remembered I have a small accurate balance scale. That way I know it will be 1 mole (10.6 grams of dry sodium carbonate with DW added for 100 ml of volume).

Also measured the mason jar using the measuring cup shown in the first post. Right to the brim is 950 ml, so it is a quart when filled to the brim. I'll take this into account for future run times.

Now for the best part, couldn't find the small syringes I thought I had. So I grabbed the 10ml graduated cylinder to see how much volume 10 drops was, and found this on the eye dropper (see pic). This is the eye dropper I've been using all along. The .5 ml line produced 9 drops.

Argentum

Offline RickinWI

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Re: 40 PPM Colloidal Silver, gel-capped and glucose reduced
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2015, 01:58:36 AM »
Yes, if we are going to discuss amounts of electrolyte like 0.5 ml vs 1.0 ml it is VERY important to be very close to 1 Molar. Otherwise I'm talking apples while you are talking about oranges. The difference in drops is probably relatively minor. One dropper might be 18 drops per ml and another might be 20 drops per ml. Maybe a 10% error factor. But it would not be hard to imagine that someone's Molarity could be off by 30 or 40 % in either direction due to many different possible causes.
So many VARIABLES & so little TIME.

Offline Gene

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Re: 40 PPM Colloidal Silver, gel-capped and glucose reduced
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2015, 02:27:20 AM »
I've been making 40PPM colloidal silver for a while, not gelatine capped but a bit differently and I don't use a stirrer.

I have an industrial hot plate that was on its way to the dumpster at the last place I worked that I rescued.  NOTHING wrong with it, probably close to $300 new.  WTF?

So I take a 1 quart mason jar and fill it to about half an inch below the top of the neck.  That works out to nearly exactly 900ml.  A mason jar is a quart to the very TOP of the neck.  You did NOT make a quart!  Measure it.  About half inch below the neck which is the workable level its 900ml.

I put it on the hot plate and add in 18 drops of electrolyte.  I turn the hot plate on to about 350F (no I'm NOT kidding).  Mason jars have a very patterned bottom that only touches the surface you put it on I think tangentially.  Thats by design so its less likely to crack after taking it out of a pressure cooker after cooking while you're canning where if there were more surface contact, people would put the hot jars down on a cold surface and wind up with a mess because the jar would break.

There is very little heat transfer and that setting barely gets me to 150F DW and it seems to hold there.  I put the electrode holder in and adjust also to about 15V.  Here however I"m using about a 3.5" submerged 14 gauge silver anode.  Current is set to 5ma.  Again, NO stirring.

Something interesting happens during the run.  I think because at the interface on the inside of the container near the bottom where the hot plate is so hot, that tiny surface is hot enough it heat reduces the colloidal silver some.  By the time I'm at close to 40PPM its already looking as dark as normal 20PPM is.

Since the solubility of silver oxide in water at 150F is about 40PPM, I'm happy I'm getting some heat reduction.

When the run is finished, I take it off the hotplate and add a tiny pinch of glucose.  about 0.1g (IIRC, Kephra said that 40mg is enough to reduce a liter of 20PPM).  It takes a couple minutes and finishes reducing and comes out a little lighter than your 40PPM gelatine reduced.

Seems to work just fine and nicely, without a stirrer.

Your mileage may vary (wink).

First time I shot for 30PPM and a temp of about 110-120F.  That worked well so I went for broke to 40PPM but new I had to crank the temp up.  Even at 30PPM I was probably operating at 300F on the hot plate.

If you're up for a bit of 'sperimenting, perhaps you'd try this and report your results.  I'm curious what a much larger anode would do.


Offline Argentum

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Re: 40 PPM Colloidal Silver, gel-capped and glucose reduced
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2015, 04:15:14 PM »
Yes, if we are going to discuss amounts of electrolyte like 0.5 ml vs 1.0 ml it is VERY important to be very close to 1 Molar. Otherwise I'm talking apples while you are talking about oranges. The difference in drops is probably relatively minor. One dropper might be 18 drops per ml and another might be 20 drops per ml. Maybe a 10% error factor. But it would not be hard to imagine that someone's Molarity could be off by 30 or 40 % in either direction due to many different possible causes.

So true, part of the issue is the quantity of DW & sodium carbonate to use for a 1-mole solution. This varies according to which source the sodium carb is from. This is what I have from various posts here:

Washing soda is 12.4 grams plus enough distilled water for 100 ml.

Sodium carb from heating baking soda is 10.6 grams plus enough distilled water for 100 ml.

Then another post stated 1 tablespoon into 3.5 ounces of DW. With another contradicting that with 1 tablespoon and enough DW for 2 ounces of solution. Although I believe that the difference is due to the source of the sodium carbonate (as above).

Being that I made the sodium carbonate from baking soda, I went with the 10.6 grams and DW for 100 ml of solution. This is from an articles post of Kephra's:

  http://www.cgcsforum.org/index.php?topic=2019.0

Argentum



Offline Argentum

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Re: 40 PPM Colloidal Silver, gel-capped and glucose reduced
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2015, 04:39:03 PM »
I've been making 40PPM colloidal silver for a while, not gelatine capped but a bit differently and I don't use a stirrer.

So I take a 1 quart mason jar and fill it to about half an inch below the top of the neck.  That works out to nearly exactly 900ml.  A mason jar is a quart to the very TOP of the neck.  You did NOT make a quart!  Measure it.  About half inch below the neck which is the workable level its 900ml.

I did make a quart as I filled the mason jar to the brim, had less then 1/16" (1.6 mm) of space at the top. This measured out to 950 ml.

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I put it on the hot plate and add in 18 drops of electrolyte.  I turn the hot plate on to about 350F (no I'm NOT kidding).  Mason jars have a
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Seems to work just fine and nicely, without a stirrer.
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If you're up for a bit of 'sperimenting, perhaps you'd try this and report your results.  I'm curious what a much larger anode would do.

Unfortunately I don't have a hot plate, hence the use of a double boiler on the range top (hob for the Brit's in our audience).

Argentum


Offline kephra

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Re: 40 PPM Colloidal Silver, gel-capped and glucose reduced
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2015, 04:45:52 PM »
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Being that I made the sodium carbonate from baking soda, I went with the 10.6 grams and DW for 100 ml of solution. This is from an articles post of Kephra's:
That is the most accurate way.  The problem is the different forms that sodium carbonate exists in.
Sodium carbonate anhydrous
Sodium carbonate monohydrate (Arm and Hammer brand, one water molecule added per carbonate molecule)
Sodium carbonate decahydrate (as mined, 10 water molecules per carbonate molecule)

Each has a different formula weight because you are including the weight of the water.

On top of that, there is another problem using volumetric measurements.  The size of the crystals changes the amount of sodium carbonate per spoonful.  So the only accurate way is to heat the sodium carbonate first, and then weigh it with an accurate scale. 
Colloidal Silver is only a bargain if you make it yourself.