Author Topic: How small can the silver anode be?  (Read 2407 times)

Offline PeterXXL

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How small can the silver anode be?
« on: July 13, 2015, 11:07:37 AM »
I've noticed that using too small anodes makes it harder to maintain a stability of voltage and current, and the opposite - a larger silver anode makes this much easier. So the question is, how small  (area in mm: Pi x diameter in mm x submerged length in mm) can the silver anode be; or the opposite - how large must the area be to maintain a stable electrolysis process at X milliamp?

Offline kephra

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Re: How small can the silver anode be?
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2015, 11:19:43 AM »
That depends on you current limiter.  With higher voltage available, the anode can be smaller.  I ran a perfect batch with just 1/4 inch of well used silver wire.  As long as you can maintain your current with the voltage available and use mechanical stirring, the anode is not too small. 
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Offline RickinWI

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Re: How small can the silver anode be?
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2015, 05:12:30 PM »
This might be an erroneous thought process but rather than wondering how small of an anode I could "get away with" I tend to think of it the other way around.

Things like: If I use a larger anode what advantages can I get. If I use a .999 bullion bar having higher Volts isn't really needed as long as I have good stirring. Possibly higher Volts is one of those double edged swords or trade off situations. I can see where having higher V would help to move the newly formed silver ions away from the anode boundary layer to prevent overcrowding & insolubility issues. BUT it could also cause a problem at the cathode. With higher V the silver is more strongly attracted to the cathode so even with enough ELectrolyte, some of the silver oxide pushes it's way to the cathode which MIGHT result in the formation of silver cathode dust which MIGHT show up as turbidity?

Any thoughts?
So many VARIABLES & so little TIME.

Offline wgpeters

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Re: How small can the silver anode be?
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2015, 05:48:37 PM »
Higher voltage does no harm.  Lower voltage makes proper setup more difficult. 
A larger anode does no harm except it takes longer to fire clean.
If you don't have sufficient stirring, a large anode is better of course, but with sufficient stirring there is little to no improvement in the quality of the finished product.

 
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Offline reiyel2012

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Re: How small can the silver anode be?
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2015, 03:20:36 AM »
In past, I have read the anode have a maximum to obtain 15ma per square inch for good result.

You have a better question with what is the maximum current for the small anode ?   

A bigger anode give less time for process.

Offline Gene

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Re: How small can the silver anode be?
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2015, 05:30:57 AM »
No, a bigger anode does not give less time for processing.  It allows you to use a higher current which in turn reduces the processing time per liter but thats only if you choose to use the higher current.  Some people don't so their processing time doesn't improve much, if any.  Its all up to the choices you make.

Processing cold makes the highest quality colloidal silver.  Using a larger anode (bullion bar) will easily allow you to move to at least 5ma, maybe a bit more, where you can make a liter of 20PPM in one hour cold, no stirring.

You could choose to heat and use stirring where you can now up the current to 15ma and make that same liter (but slightly less high a quality) of 20PPM colloidal silver in 20 minutes.

The bottom line is, if you're not in a rush (who is, ever?) just go cold, no stirring with a bullion bar at 5-8ma (whatever you feel comfortable with) and live with the time to finish and be happy you've made the best colloidal silver anyone on planet Earth can.

If you want to experiment by all means do but keep good notes and only change 1 operating parameter per run so you know if you break something, you know exactly what you did that broke it.  You know what I mean.

This is all a big balancing act.  Everybody finds a slightly different set of operating parameters they're happy with and thats fine because there is no single perfect answer - just a whole bunch of perfectly good ones. But there are bad ones too so you do need to read the literature and understand the operating parameters.

fishing4fun

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Re: How small can the silver anode be?
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2015, 04:52:44 PM »
How small could a silver anode be, well i have some 21ga wire i will be experimenting with because a week ago or so i had that same question.
The part i am not sure on is, "It doesn't matter what size the anode is, the amount of silver coming off is a set, determined bye current & time"
So if i am getting this right it wouldn't matter if i had a one ounce coin for a anode or a 100 ounce bar for a anode if you set the current and time the same the amount of silver coming off is equal regardless of the smaller anode or larger anode?
The only difference is that the larger anode could handle more current.


Offline reiyel2012

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Re: How small can the silver anode be?
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2015, 10:13:26 PM »
You can calculate area of your anode in water face to cathode to calculate the current you can handle.


fishing4fun

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Re: How small can the silver anode be?
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2015, 03:08:55 AM »
You can calculate area of your anode in water face to cathode to calculate the current you can handle.
With bars or coins etc... with wire i have read here that you would calculate the entire surface.

Offline Gene

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Re: How small can the silver anode be?
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2015, 04:16:24 AM »
No, with bars and coins you count the surface thats FACING the cathode.  But you can probably assume 20-30% contribution from the back side but probably no more than this.

The issue with a small anode is the rate of production of silver oxide.  Thats why with small anodes (really small ones) you need stirring to keep the density of silver oxide around the anode low enough so what leaves the anode dissolves rather than precipitating out of solution or just plain flaking off which would be bad because it would most likely then not dissolve and now you have an issue.