Author Topic: Colloidal Gold first try.  (Read 2052 times)

Offline tony14

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Colloidal Gold first try.
« on: March 21, 2019, 06:46:08 AM »
I'd bought purest salt/citrate/cinnamon I could find. 1mg Au ingot. Used brass as K and rod to hold clip for ingot.

Q: Presumably brass is ok for electrodes?

I used Kephra's method (but changed salt as I saw somewhere he had upped it) and Cassia cinnamon made to his method that I've been using for Colloidal Silver.

500ml DW
Salt: 240mg (actually 250mg - difficult to get right)
Citrate: 200mg (actually 260mg for same reason)
Cinnamon: 1.5ml (30 drops for me) - should have been 2ml - just a try.
Large K; 1mg Au ingot spaced to get 350mA at 31V (turned out @ 10mm - need more volts? - Add booster - Booster works off 12V & only $AUS17: Google: DC-DC 600W 10-60V to 12-80V Boost Converter Step-up Module car Power Supply)

Heated water in nukerator to @ 75C; onto hotplate; added Salt; citrate and stirbarred for 5mins then added 30d cinnamon (1.5ml) Colour changed cinnamon-like.

Waited for 85C, electrodes in. Current adjusted for 350mA and ingot had to be lowered to @ 60% immersed. (Bit worrying as plated-tin alligator-hold-clip almost in the bubbling around ingot - need more volts to lift ingot/move apart.)
Started Google-timer, stirbar running slow.

At @ 7mins 85C and quite red colour. Colour got deeper red and @ 15mins current started falling - 320mA @ 17mins - 300mA @ 19mins (now 95C) Stopped at 20mins. Colour clear and deep ruby-red - YAY!
(Seems current falling indicates salt-gone, it's done??)
Nuked it for 2mins - then - bugger! The stirbar!

Weighed ingot and it was still 1mg?? Must have bought a dodgy mini scale? Ingot definitely looked very clean below the water level mark, so I put a 56mg weight on the scale and the ingot had lost @ 26mg - non-linearity - or gravity in Oz?

Shared batch with wifey, tasted 'neutral,' maybe slightly cinnamon and when poured the colour was somewhat paler so maybe not long enough?

I think I stopped too soon as it's only 14mA-mins but the colour was so deep ruby red (cinnamon?) it was exciting & I didn't want any purple & current falling seemed important?

It's hard to show colour with my 'phone camera but would welcome any comments.

Thanks for all the methodology, seems I'm on my way and wifey can get off the multitude of tablets she's on!

tony
Fortibus es in ero? Nobili, demis trux.

Shadsu

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Re: Colloidal Gold first try.
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2019, 12:48:54 PM »
You had more luck than me.
I had something red only in my third try. :)

Online kephra

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Re: Colloidal Gold first try.
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2019, 01:08:04 PM »
Quote from: tony14
I think I stopped too soon as it's only 14mA-mins but the colour was so deep ruby red (cinnamon?) it was exciting & I didn't want any purple & current falling seemed important?
ma-minutes does not apply to making gold.  The end point occurs when the solution runs out of chloride.
Colloidal Silver is only a bargain if you make it yourself.

Offline tony14

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Re: Colloidal Gold first try.
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2019, 01:35:20 AM »
Quote from: tony14
I think I stopped too soon as it's only 14mA-mins but the colour was so deep ruby red (cinnamon?) it was exciting & I didn't want any purple & current falling seemed important?
ma-minutes does not apply to making gold.  The end point occurs when the solution runs out of chloride.

Thanks Kephra. I must be getting confused?
In your 20mA experiment you quote mA-mins (12V - 72ma-mins/ml; 40V - 42mA-mins/ml) and one post followed instructions achieving almost 42mA-mins/ml so my 14mA-mins/ml seemed weird as the resulting colour/clearness seemed too good?
Again, I used 500ml DW and I saw advice of 'double water quantity=double time' and I only ran for the 20mins advised for 250ml yet the result was good? This makes me even more confused.

What 'chloride'? Presumably this is sodium chloride that gets used-up and conductivity decreases reducing the formation of gold chloride, so, does the current falling indicate the end of the reaction and can be used as an 'end-point'?

tony
Fortibus es in ero? Nobili, demis trux.

Online kephra

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Re: Colloidal Gold first try.
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2019, 02:07:13 AM »
Quote
In your 20mA experiment you quote mA-mins (12V - 72ma-mins/ml; 40V - 42mA-mins/ml) and one post followed instructions achieving almost 42mA-mins/ml so my 14mA-mins/ml seemed weird as the resulting colour/clearness seemed too good?
I think you are thinking of someone else. I have always said ma-minutes is useless as an indicator because gold requires 3 electrons to be made into gold chloride and dissolve, and there is no guarantee that the same gold atom will collect all three. 
Colloidal Silver is only a bargain if you make it yourself.

Offline cosanostra

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Re: Colloidal Gold first try.
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2019, 12:08:34 PM »
Can I ask - my running time is 30 mins and there is chloride taste. The amount of sodium chloride is on your formula - if I cut it, this would reduce possible time of electrolysing and could reach end point soon before 30th min, but without chloride taste. Right?
“It is my view that the vegetarian manner of living, by its purely physical effect on the human temperament, would most beneficially influence the lot of mankind.”
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Online kephra

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Re: Colloidal Gold first try.
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2019, 01:00:43 PM »
If you taste chlorine (not salt), it is not done yet.   It should not taste like chlorinated water.  It may taste salty because of the residual sodium.
Decreasing the amount of sodium chloride will decrease the time, but also decrease the ppm strength.
Colloidal Silver is only a bargain if you make it yourself.

Offline cosanostra

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Re: Colloidal Gold first try.
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2019, 04:43:14 PM »
Agh yes, it was chlorine taste and smell. I thought, when color get rich enough it's done. I made new batch with 2/3 NaCl and almost double of time and get richer color and no taste. But how to know exactly when it's finish, something about bubbles? Posibbility of overcook?
“It is my view that the vegetarian manner of living, by its purely physical effect on the human temperament, would most beneficially influence the lot of mankind.”
― Albert Einstein

Online kephra

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Re: Colloidal Gold first try.
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2019, 05:14:31 PM »
Its done when there is no more change, and no chlorine coming off.  You can't overcook it.
Colloidal Silver is only a bargain if you make it yourself.

Offline cosanostra

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Re: Colloidal Gold first try.
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2019, 12:19:05 PM »
Its done when there is no more change, and no chlorine coming off.  You can't overcook it.
Ok I get it, thanks.
For 250 ml DW I'm using
100mg NaCl
110mg sodium citrate
220mg glucose
5-6 drops agave syrup
My kathode turns black on top. Do you think it's losing a gold?
I'm using instant coffee successful for silver reduction, do you think it's good for gold?
I've tried once but got dark solution, and was unable to definate what color is red or purple.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2019, 12:40:05 PM by cosanostra »
“It is my view that the vegetarian manner of living, by its purely physical effect on the human temperament, would most beneficially influence the lot of mankind.”
― Albert Einstein

Online kephra

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Re: Colloidal Gold first try.
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2019, 01:29:24 PM »
Because we must rely on color to judge our synthesis of nanoparticles, I think its a really bad idea to use a substance which changes the color of the water. 
Colloidal Silver is only a bargain if you make it yourself.

Offline cosanostra

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Re: Colloidal Gold first try.
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2019, 01:42:45 PM »
Because we must rely on color to judge our synthesis of nanoparticles, I think its a really bad idea to use a substance which changes the color of the water.
Yeah, good point.
“It is my view that the vegetarian manner of living, by its purely physical effect on the human temperament, would most beneficially influence the lot of mankind.”
― Albert Einstein

Offline tony14

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Re: Colloidal Gold first try.
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2019, 07:03:33 AM »
Its done when there is no more change, and no chlorine coming off.  You can't overcook it.

My kathode turns black on top. Do you think it's losing a gold?

My K also is black along the water-line (image 4 above) and I wondered @ chlorine-copper-zinc - chlorides due to the chlorine? (K is brass sheet.) AFAI can see no Au plates onto K but waiting on 10mg FSD scale to measure ingot-loss as current one faulty.
It's not a deposit, more like a plated effect.
Also after 3 runs there was a black deposit on the gold ingot alligator-clip that could be scraped-off but nothing in the liquid. (The alligator clip gets evaporated liquid, it's not in electrolyte.)
Looking for some thin silicone tube to sort-of 'condomise' the junction.

So far batches seem ok, very clear, darkish ruby-red and taste a bit cinnamon, no salt-taste. 500ml runs have been 20mins @ 350mA - one 30V, others 60V, ingredients as Kephra advised.

Seems the large K allows A movement anywhere within the liquid (not close to K) and current virtually unchanged. The 1mg ingot is only immersed @ 3mm.

tony
Fortibus es in ero? Nobili, demis trux.

Offline cosanostra

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Re: Colloidal Gold first try.
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2019, 05:27:25 PM »
My K also is black along the water-line
Also after 3 runs there was a black deposit on the gold ingot alligator-clip that could be scraped-off but nothing in the liquid. (The alligator clip gets evaporated liquid, it's not in electrolyte.)
Same scenario to me. Kathode is copper rod. I'm not using clips, but gold is isolated with insulating tape.
“It is my view that the vegetarian manner of living, by its purely physical effect on the human temperament, would most beneficially influence the lot of mankind.”
― Albert Einstein

Offline tony14

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Re: Colloidal Gold first try.
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2019, 12:30:11 AM »
My K also is black along the water-line
Also after 3 runs there was a black deposit on the gold ingot alligator-clip that could be scraped-off but nothing in the liquid. (The alligator clip gets evaporated liquid, it's not in electrolyte.)
Same scenario to me. Kathode is copper rod. I'm not using clips, but gold is isolated with insulating tape.
Thought of that & rejected it but now I'll do it. Clean-off ingot for weighing when scale arrives. My cinnamon (Cassia) was 'age/goodness' unknown but so far 3 runs seem ok. Colour matching difficult unless compared, side-by-side like video or audio quality. Your ingot 'depth' looks similar to mine.
tony

OT: Your quip made me think back when researching low speed data comms via plant-stimulation. I came across a paper where one of 2 adjacent plants was 'murdered,' the other had a galvanometer attached. 6 people were individually paraded in front of the plant with the galvo and it identified the 'murderer' & 2 others. It kicked voltage-wise - violently at the murderer, notso at the 2. Confused, the researcher found the other 2 identified had mowed their lawns that day! :o
« Last Edit: March 26, 2019, 12:38:16 AM by tony14 »
Fortibus es in ero? Nobili, demis trux.