Author Topic: Colloidal Nano Silver-Its Production Method, Properties, Standards...  (Read 435 times)


Offline FlyingDutchman

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Re: Colloidal Nano Silver-Its Production Method, Properties, Standards...
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2019, 05:11:35 PM »
I am a fan of Hans Laroo, and I think he has said many sensible things about colloidal silver standards and production. However, his theories about structured water I am not sure about. I have experimented with UV reduction of ionic silver, but I have never been able to reproduce any of it. I have used UV LEDs (430nm) to irridiate silver ions during the electrodissolution process and also after (itradiating a 20 ppm ionic solution for up to 24 hours!), but have been unable to test the resulting solutions/colloids. No color change ever occurred, and the salt test showed that there were little or no silver ions present. What was in it (sub nano silver, microsilver?) I have no idea.

Offline mfacen

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Re: Colloidal Nano Silver-Its Production Method, Properties, Standards...
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2019, 02:56:16 AM »
   Its an interesting read, but way too complicated for my level of chemistry, I read a couple of things that struck me, they are using bigger NP's and the ionic is made with silver nitrate it seems, so I don't know how well this translates to our uses. I'd love to hear our more experienced member's opinion on this study, thanks Karl for the link.

 Number 2 here seems to imply that NP's end up as insloluble salts.
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Furthermore, the results of our model indicate that: (1) within the application domain of our model, the particle size and coating had a minor influence on the biodistribution; (2) in vivo, it is more likely that silver nanoparticles are directly stored as insoluble salt particles than dissolve into Ag+; and (3) compartments of the mononuclear phagocytic system play a minor role in exposure levels that are relevant for human consumers.

Also here number 2, isnt silver sulfide what can end up in the skin and cause argyria ?
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Two possible scenarios were considered for the metabolism of nanosilver (Figure 3): (1) silver NPs dissolve and release soluble silver species, which are then transferred to the ionic silver PBPK model, and (2) silver NPs are directly transformed to silver sulfide particles. Both cases have been described under controlled laboratory conditions in vitro,54,55 but exact in vivo behavior remains unknown. Scenario 2 is further supported from our own evaluations (supplementary materials) and from the detection of NPs, also as agglomerates, in the organs of rats exposed to NPs that partly consist of sulfur and selenium.31,49 Hence, if not mentioned otherwise, a direct storage was used for the calculations. When scenario 1 was used for the calculations, realistic dissolution rates were taken from the literature.

And here, we assume higher rates of absorption in our tables.
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After oral administration of nanosilver, we determined intestinal absorption fractions between 0.12% and 0.88%. These absorption fractions are in good agreement with the results of Bouwmeester et al80 who measured a translocation of silver nanoparticles (20 and 30 nm) between 0.19% and 0.62%, in an in vitro intestinal epithelium coculture model for a duration of 4 hours. For ionic silver an absorption fraction of approximately 5% was reported for rats,53 which is also in line with our 3.25% for silver acetate in rats. A comparison with in vitro determined intestinal absorption fractions of soluble silver (eg, by Bouwmeester et al80) is not possible because of the formation of NPs in the GI-tract.64

   I miss Kephra right now...

Offline cfnisbet

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Re: Colloidal Nano Silver-Its Production Method, Properties, Standards...
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2019, 09:47:57 AM »
Firstly, you are correct that silver sulphide is Argyria. The silver ions can enter the mammalian cells and combine with sulphur ions. The resulting sulphide shows through the skin and at high enough concentrations is visible as a grey-blue discolouration.

Secondly, the reason why researchers make silver nanoparticles from silver nitrate is that it is easy to do, and because they don't know how to make it any other (better) way. You need to read any science paper, no matter how prestigious, with a very jaundiced and critical eye if the AgNP have been made using this method. This is because the silver nitrate leaves a residuum of nitric acid, which is a serious contaminant. Example: AgNP are alleged to kill fish and they show signs of distress is water with silver nanoparticles in it. Why? Because the malevolent idiot researcher used silver nitrate to make his AgNP! He then bathes his poor research fish in dilute nitric acid and wonders why they show signs of distress...

Offline Gene

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Re: Colloidal Nano Silver-Its Production Method, Properties, Standards...
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2019, 07:35:43 PM »
Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly but once ionic silver enters a cell, it reacts with sulfur or selenium inside the cell forming either silver selenide or silver sulfide.  As I recall, BOTH are light sensitive and now not being an ion anymore, they can't get back out.  "Infect" enough cells this way and those exposed to light will start taking on a greyish blue color which is permanent (you "smurf" yourself).  Given the body replaces itself every 7 years (all cells are regenerated, replacing old cells), if you do this to yourself, once you stop doing it, it could take up to 7 years to lose the "smurf". NOT GOOD!

The simple solution is don't! Only ingest colloidal silver which doesn't do this.

Even using IS for external purposes, you can more quickly turn the spot you've treated blue. Someone here did that a few years back.  As I recall it faded over months (it was only the surface few layers of skin infected) but I certainly wouldn't want this.

And I completely agree with Colin (cfnisbet) that most research papers aren't worth the paper they're printed on.  A lot of research is done to get research dollars and the most expedient way to convince someone with a fist-full of money that they need to give it to you for further research is to cut corners (though some researchers walk around with their heads up their butts too) and take the expedient way.  As Colin says, if you don't ask HARD, revealing questions regarding what the research and results are and how they were really obtained, you're setting yourself up to be duped.

The easier way is to believe whats posted here on the forum as this information has been verified to be correct over a LONG period of time (the forum has been around for a LONG time)... and we're all still here (wink).

There is very little research or information on the web that really pertains to how we make (almost none) and use colloidal silver.  Oh yeah, there are a lot of colloidal silver "used car salesmen" though. Beware!

Offline Neofizz

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Re: Colloidal Nano Silver-Its Production Method, Properties, Standards...
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2019, 03:38:57 AM »
As an old laboratory technologist from over 30 years ago who continues to study many branches of science to this very day I am very disappointed in the path that many claimed scientists have taken. Bumble-Science seems to be the order of the day with people that haven't a clue what they are doing, and a population that knows even less so is forced to believe them.

The blind leading the blind off the edge of a cliff.

When youtubers are out sciencing the "real" scientists and forums like this understand what they don't, you know there is something seriously wrong out there.

Biology isn't biology. Biology is chemistry. Chemistry isn't chemistry. Chemistry is physics. Physics isn't physics. Physics is math. And finally... Science isn't science. Science is politics.
"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."

Offline Bobby

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Re: Colloidal Nano Silver-Its Production Method, Properties, Standards...
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2019, 06:42:21 AM »
   Damn...Well said guys!  WELL SAID!
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power"  Abraham Lincoln

Offline FlyingDutchman

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Re: Colloidal Nano Silver-Its Production Method, Properties, Standards...
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2019, 04:44:21 PM »
   Its an interesting read, but way too complicated for my level of chemistry, I read a couple of things that struck me, they are using bigger NP's and the ionic is made with silver nitrate it seems, so I don't know how well this translates to our uses. I'd love to hear our more experienced member's opinion on this study, thanks Karl for the link.
 

Hans Laroo is famous for devising and patenting an UV irradiated electrodissolution process. So there is no silver nitrate involved.

Offline Neofizz

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Re: Colloidal Nano Silver-Its Production Method, Properties, Standards...
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2019, 06:23:51 PM »
The article seemed quite thorough but there were things that left me with strong disagreements, like using de-ionized water instead of distilled water.

I can agree with production in total darkness (a little difficult) but using specific wavelengths of light to reduce then keeping it refrigerated in the dark afterwards tells me that it isn't really stable.

He's very focused on not introducing any chemistry, while we're focused on using food chemistry to control the particle size and keep it stable in addition to speeding up production.

So we have a product that is easy to make and stable while he has a product that is difficult to make and not so stable.

Kephra's methods win again!  :)

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."

Offline Milhaus

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Re: Colloidal Nano Silver-Its Production Method, Properties, Standards...
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2019, 10:23:57 AM »
I am a fan of Hans Laroo, and I think he has said many sensible things about colloidal silver standards and production. However, his theories about structured water I am not sure about. I have experimented with UV reduction of ionic silver, but I have never been able to reproduce any of it. I have used UV LEDs (430nm) to irridiate silver ions during the electrodissolution process and also after (itradiating a 20 ppm ionic solution for up to 24 hours!), but have been unable to test the resulting solutions/colloids. No color change ever occurred, and the salt test showed that there were little or no silver ions present. What was in it (sub nano silver, microsilver?) I have no idea.
I was not able to reproduce his work also. I had trouble with plateout of silver. So i have tried to prepare silver ions with electrolyte as described here and tried 420nm LED light for reduction. But no reduction happens. Maybe it does require very strong UV light ( at least tenth of watts ).
« Last Edit: October 10, 2019, 10:35:27 AM by Milhaus »

Offline FlyingDutchman

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Re: Colloidal Nano Silver-Its Production Method, Properties, Standards...
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2019, 03:42:24 PM »
The article seemed quite thorough but there were things that left me with strong disagreements, like using de-ionized water instead of distilled water.

I can agree with production in total darkness (a little difficult) but using specific wavelengths of light to reduce then keeping it refrigerated in the dark afterwards tells me that it isn't really stable.

He's very focused on not introducing any chemistry, while we're focused on using food chemistry to control the particle size and keep it stable in addition to speeding up production.

So we have a product that is easy to make and stable while he has a product that is difficult to make and not so stable.

Kephra's methods win again!  :)

Neofizz, I tend to agree with you, Kephra always wins, lol! At least when we talk about LVDC methods, green synthesis, etc.
On the other hand, I have been in contact with a company called Aure here in Brazil, who have perfected the process of the High Voltage Plasma Arc method, allowing for larger volumes of stabilized nano silver with very small particles size. In this method, the nano particles are stabilized by the water itself (OH structures around the nano sphere), i.e. micelles. From what I understand, Hans Laroo was looking for a similar technique, creating micelles using UV radiation (Here at the São Paulo UNESP university they use Xeon lamps), at lower voltage. I guess he never really succeeded (sold the patent to some company, and then... nothing?), but that does not mean that the principle is not viable.

Offline Nerenul

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Re: Colloidal Nano Silver-Its Production Method, Properties, Standards...
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2019, 12:49:32 AM »
Can someone explain to me what monoatomic silver is and if it is a safe option?

Offline kephra

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Re: Colloidal Nano Silver-Its Production Method, Properties, Standards...
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2019, 08:10:09 PM »
Monoatomic silver does not exist.
Single atoms of silver will always combine to make larger particles because single atoms do not have sufficient electrical charge to negate the van der waals force of attraction which causes single atoms and small clusters to aggregate.

Monoatomic silver and gold is nothing but a scam.
Colloidal Silver is only a bargain if you make it yourself.

Offline Nerenul

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Re: Colloidal Nano Silver-Its Production Method, Properties, Standards...
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2019, 08:18:55 PM »
Thank you so much for clarifying my question. I spend a lot of money on purchasing it, before finding this forum and now trying to make it ourselves. Live and learn!