Author Topic: questions about electrolyte  (Read 416 times)

Offline rogwhat53

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questions about electrolyte
« on: March 28, 2020, 12:06:08 AM »
I understand from reading here that 1Mol of Na2CO3 per Liter, and then one milliliter of this strength (say, 20drops) is the ideal amount of electrolyte to add to one Liter of DW to begin electrolysis of a batch of colloidal silver.

My question is, How was that strength determined? Is it based on the further claim that this gives a pH of 8.5 which is also claimed optimal?

If so, how is that determined?

I am not questioning the verity of these statements at all, just wondering how they were arrived at. Is it experiential or based on calculations?

Thank you in advance,
rogwhat53

Offline wgpeters

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Re: questions about electrolyte
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2020, 12:25:34 AM »
I came up with that.

pH of 7 is too low to activate glucose based reducing agents.
pH of 10 is not good for stability.  In fact municipal water treatment plants use pH10 to remove metals from the water.  We do not want to remove the silver.

pH 8.5 is middle of those two, which is what I shot for.  At that amount, an error of 50% in the amount of sodium carbonate still places the pH at a usable value.  A doubling of electrolyte only raises the pH by .3.  Cutting it in half reduces the pH by .3 to 8.2

More than the recommended amount makes it very difficult to get minimum of 10 volts across the electrodes.  Less causes more plateout on the cathode.

I used the online pH calculator to get the 8.5 value.

So it is partly arbitrary, but worked out well in practice.
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Offline dimoune

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Re: questions about electrolyte
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2020, 03:32:15 AM »
Hi,

I'm using 20 ppm Colloidal Silver in a nebulizer but it is giving me a severe burning sensation in my throat and esophagus. I cut down the electrolyte to half, and still have this burning sensation. I tested my Colloidal Silver to see if my electrolyte might be too high, but it is reading under 90.

What is your thoughts about that please?

Thank you.

Offline Gene

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Re: questions about electrolyte
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2020, 03:45:28 AM »
You tested your Colloidal Silver with what?  90 what?

If you're talking about a TDS meter, the ONLY thing they're useful for is to test the purity of your distilled water.

The best way would be to test the PH. It should be up around 8-8.5PH with the correct amount of electrolyte in solution.  The other thing is that if you have too much, you'd find yourself having great difficulty in maintaining a cell voltage up over 10V if even you could ever get there.

I make 20PPM all the time for ultrasonic humidifier use and others use it too and none of us have ever gotten any burning.

If you're really using a real nebulizer, its worthless. These things put out micrograms over time and I bet even after a treatment you could probably count the number of silver particles you got into your lungs on your hands and toes.

You NEED to use an ultrasonic humidifier. You won't get enough volume to get any substantial amount of silver into your lungs if you don't.

Offline dimoune

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Re: questions about electrolyte
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2020, 10:14:56 AM »
With distilled water the TDS is 0 ppm of course. After adding the electrolyte, what should be the typical ppm level of the water? I saw someone mentioned something around 120 ppm in another thread. I make sure mine is just about 90 ppm or less to avoid the burning sensation but it still burns.

Now I'm not sure what causing this. My thoughts is the sodium carbonate, but I'm not using a lot at all.

BTW, I have an ultrasonic humidifier and a fogger, but I find the nebulizer works well for me and is more convenient.

Thanks.

Offline Gene

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Re: questions about electrolyte
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2020, 06:20:43 PM »
I have no clue whether or not the TDS meter can accurately read the level of sodium carbonate. TDS meters are calibrated for NORMAL solids in tap water. Sodium carbonate is not one of them.  They also don't read solids.  They're AC resistance meters. They measure the resistance of the water and GUESS at what the solids loading is based on the normal solids found in tap water HOWEVER, this is even VERY inaccurate because each different compound has a different particle size so there is really no way for them to guess correctly.  As far as I'm concerned, the ONLY thing a TDS meter is good for is to check the DW to make sure its pure enough.  I wouldn't trust a reading for any other purpose.

Adding even a tiny amount of sodium carbonate reduces the resistance by a LOT and I'd just bet this thing won't be reading accurately.  The only thing I'd trust would be a PH meter but not after you've started a run because I'm sure the silver in solution will screw up the result.

That nebulizer is worthless.  Save your money and time of making Colloidal Silver to use with it and just fill it with distilled water.  You'll do just about as well either way. The amount of silver you need to get into your lungs is many orders of magnitude greater than what that thing can put out.  An ultrasonic humidifier is about right and then some breathe enough in to where its actually leaking out of their noses before turning it off. You'd need to use it 2-3 times a day for maybe 10 minutes each.

Just think about how much liquid an ultrasonic humidifier puts out in 10 minutes.  Contrast that to a 10 minute run with your nebulizer and I think you'll get the point.

If you think the nebulizer is helping, its a placebo effect because you're not getting anything close to the amount of Colloidal Silver you need to into your sinuses and lungs.

Offline wgpeters

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Re: questions about electrolyte
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2020, 02:08:50 PM »
A TDS meter will not read sodium carbonate accurately, but it should be repeatable.
Make a sodium carbonate solution with carefully weighed powder, and then measure with the TDS.
Write down the reading, and then you can use that for future comparison. 
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Offline dimoune

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Re: questions about electrolyte
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2020, 06:36:00 PM »

If you think the nebulizer is helping, its a placebo effect because you're not getting anything close to the amount of colloidal silver you need to into your sinuses and lungs.

How much ml of 20 ppm would you recommend to enter the lung?

Offline cfnisbet

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Re: questions about electrolyte
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2020, 09:23:30 PM »
If you are using a nebuliser, fill it. Then fill it again. The amount in a nubuliser is tiny.

Offline rogwhat53

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Re: questions about electrolyte
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2020, 12:11:16 AM »
wgpeters,

Thank you so much for your reply. It makes sense to me that the choice of 8.5 was a practical compromise between opposing trends of silver plate-out and maintaining a suitable cell voltage. I can see that this would be so from my own very recent experiments in this direction.

I also understand from this that the electrolyte's ability to prevent plate-out is, although significant, limited and not absolute. Conversely, the same can be said of the "scavenging action" of the elevated cell voltage...... These two implications actually answer some questions I was reserving to ask!

Thanks.

rogwhat53

Offline wgpeters

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Re: questions about electrolyte
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2020, 01:19:02 AM »
wgpeters,

Thank you so much for your reply. It makes sense to me that the choice of 8.5 was a practical compromise between opposing trends of silver plate-out and maintaining a suitable cell voltage. I can see that this would be so from my own very recent experiments in this direction.

I also understand from this that the electrolyte's ability to prevent plate-out is, although significant, limited and not absolute. Conversely, the same can be said of the "scavenging action" of the elevated cell voltage...... These two implications actually answer some questions I was reserving to ask!

Thanks.

rogwhat53
Yes, the 7 ph minimum is required by the Karo or maltodextrin type reducing agents.  Below 7, these molecules assume a ring structure where the reducing end eats the other end of the molecule with the result that there is no reducing structure available to reduce silver. 

At 8.5 ph, the water is very conductive which results in a small amount of cathode in the water to get above 10 volts.  With the small amount of cathode, the sodium ions are trapped in a smaller area making them closer together which makes it harder for silver ions to sneak through. 

Everything is a balance.  I tried to pick the best balance so everything could dance together best.
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Offline Bluelight

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Re: questions about navigating website
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2020, 12:19:58 AM »
Hi everyone, I just want to say hello and thanks for all your work on these precious health supports at this time. I have family + friends that are vulnerable + scared + I would like to be able to have a community based colloidal silver supply. I have trained as a nurse, but have gone on to qualify as an Osteopath, which I work at. Im not great at technology  :) - dont know how I got to write a message here, but Id like to be part of this group. Thank you from the heart.