Author Topic: Question about very low currents (from Brazil)  (Read 754 times)

Offline juliano

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Question about very low currents (from Brazil)
« on: December 20, 2020, 09:00:43 PM »
I live in Brazil(forgive my machine translator english) and bought a Colloidal Silver generator available here, but at the beginning of production it offers a current of 100-200 µA (that's right micro amp) and goes up until reaching 15 to 20 mA at the end of the process. The seller had told me about it and in practice I observed it.
My question is whether this is normal, whether it is possible to produce good ionic silver with such low starting amps?

Offline cfnisbet

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Re: Question about very low currents (from Brazil)
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2020, 09:08:58 PM »
That's not the problem, the problem seems to be that you aren't using an electrolyte. Study the section on Colloidal Silver production.

Offline juliano

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Re: Question about very low currents (from Brazil)
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2020, 10:01:23 PM »
But will the electrolyte change this configuration of the device? or speed up the process which is very slow due to configuration?

Offline Gene

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Re: Question about very low currents (from Brazil)
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2020, 03:40:24 AM »
The electrolyte (1 molar sodium carbonate solution) does a few things.

It lowers the resistance of the water so you can get reasonable amounts of current through it.

It prevents silver from plating out on the cathode which is a big problem without it because the electrolysis cell is basically an electroplating cell so without the electrolyte, you're plating all the silver you pull into solution on the cathode and making nothing or nearly nothing other than a silver plated cathode.

It raises the PH of the water into the 8+PH range which is required for the reducing agent to work properly.  Reducing sugars only work in an alkaline environment and a lot of distilled water thats on the shelf absorbs CO2 from the air which lowers the PH (dissolved CO2 is known as carbolic acid).

So in a word, yes, with the electrolyte, things will change for the better. You will be able to get your desired constant current from the very beginning of the run.

Read the articles as has been suggested.

Offline juliano

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Re: Question about very low currents (from Brazil)
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2020, 01:28:27 AM »
Thank you very much to everyone here on the forum, I have learned a lot

Offline Rancher55

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Re: Question about very low currents (from Brazil)
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2020, 06:46:04 PM »
The electrolyte (1 molar sodium carbonate solution) does a few things.

It lowers the resistance of the water so you can get reasonable amounts of current through it.

It prevents silver from plating out on the cathode which is a big problem without it because the electrolysis cell is basically an electroplating cell so without the electrolyte, you're plating all the silver you pull into solution on the cathode and making nothing or nearly nothing other than a silver plated cathode.

It raises the PH of the water into the 8+PH range which is required for the reducing agent to work properly.  Reducing sugars only work in an alkaline environment and a lot of distilled water thats on the shelf absorbs CO2 from the air which lowers the PH (dissolved CO2 is known as carbolic acid).

So in a word, yes, with the electrolyte, things will change for the better. You will be able to get your desired constant current from the very beginning of the run.

Read the articles as has been suggested.

I have recently acquired the needed gear to produce Colloidal Silver and have had some good results.  However, I'm not sure if I am adding enough washing soda solution to my cell.  I monitor both voltage and current from my constant current supply.  My electrodes which are both 1oz Canadian Maple leaf coins suspended by pure silver wires in distilled water.  I turn on my power supply which shows 30 volts and mere microamps of current (using Walmart sourced distilled water).  Then I add drops of the washing soda solution until the current climbs and reaches my preset limit where its current regulating (indicated by voltage dropping).  I try to keep the voltage from 15-20 volts and this is where I begin to wonder if I'm doing it right.  It takes less washing soda solution than I have read here.  For a 4 liter (doing 1 gallon at a time) batch, it requires only 10-20 drops of solution.  Either I have made my 1 Molar solution too strong or its taking less.  I fear that this is causing my reducing agent to not properly reduce.  I just started making it in 1 gallon batches and last night, the batch came out hazy/cloudy, and the color appears more towards chartreuse than the Johnsons baby soap yellow that I am more familiar with.

My equipment is a hot plate stirrer, 120 RPM stir bar and heating the water to 175F
DC generator producing constant current 20mA
4L water in a beaker
30 drops of 1 Molar solution
2 hours run time in the dark with the hopes of achieving 40ppm
Stir hot for 2 hours post after adding 4ml 50/50 corn syrup/distilled water solution
Results, looks like Colloidal Silver but tinging on green color, slightly cloudy, with a faint ultra violet hue near the surface.

Can anyone comment where I need to make adjustments?
Last photo shows flashlight illuminating to show color.  The haze is not as bad as it looks until you shine light thru it.
I'm assuming the haze is ionic silver that has not been reduced?

Thanks for comments or helpful criticism.

Offline kephra

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Re: Question about very low currents (from Brazil)
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2020, 07:36:05 PM »
You made at least 2 mistakes.

You should not use 2 silver bars for electrodes.  You should use a silver bar for the positive electrode, and copper or silver wire for the negative.

You should always use 1 milliliter of 1 molar sodium carbonate solution per liter of water to get the correct pH, and conductivity.  You do not adjust current or voltage by the amount of electrolyte.

You adjust voltage by the amount of negative electrode in the water.

Electrode spacing is also important.  The 10 volt minimum is for a spacing of 37mm or 1.5 inches.  Wider spacings require more voltage.
Colloidal Silver is only a bargain if you make it yourself.

Offline Rancher55

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Re: Question about very low currents (from Brazil)
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2020, 05:24:18 PM »
Thank you Kephra, I made a note of your comments and will make the necessary adjustments on the next batch.

Offline Rancher55

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Re: Question about very low currents (from Brazil)
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2020, 05:32:34 PM »
You made at least 2 mistakes.

You should not use 2 silver bars for electrodes.  You should use a silver bar for the positive electrode, and copper or silver wire for the negative.

Using 2 silver bars lets me reverse the polarity every so often to avoid the solid matter that builds on the cathode.  The surface tension of the water seems to pull it off the electrode when lifting it from the solution at the end of production.  I'm assuming this material is larger particles and not safe to ingest.  If it were for topical use, I wouldn't be concerned.  Should I be concerned?  Yes I filter it with a #4 cone filter for coffee.  But I'm certain that some particles are small enough to pass thru.  I have seen some white metal floating on the surface as well.  The black seems to settle out over time.  Still its a concern as I don't have years of experience to access the long term effects if any.

What is everyone else doing about this build up?  A small amount of "sludge" has come off in every 1L batch I have made previously.  Its it safe to bottle, let settle and decant later?  It that the process?

Offline kephra

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Re: Question about very low currents (from Brazil)
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2020, 05:58:56 PM »
OK, you made 4 mistakes. 

#3. Polarity switching is not a good idea, and is not necessary if you use the right amount of electrolyte plus a wire for the negative electrode. 

#4. You didn't bother to read the Articles.
Colloidal Silver is only a bargain if you make it yourself.

Offline cfnisbet

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Re: Question about very low currents (from Brazil)
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2020, 06:06:55 PM »
Fire clean your anode after the process. This will turn the black sludge back into useable silver. Read the Articles and then I suggest you review the instructions in the "Colloidal Silver Production" thread. You are nearly there, but some things need fine-tuning in your process.

Offline Rancher55

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Re: Question about very low currents (from Brazil)
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2020, 03:44:52 AM »
You made at least 2 mistakes.

You should not use 2 silver bars for electrodes.  You should use a silver bar for the positive electrode, and copper or silver wire for the negative.

You should always use 1 milliliter of 1 molar sodium carbonate solution per liter of water to get the correct pH, and conductivity.  You do not adjust current or voltage by the amount of electrolyte.

You adjust voltage by the amount of negative electrode in the water.

Electrode spacing is also important.  The 10 volt minimum is for a spacing of 37mm or 1.5 inches.  Wider spacings require more voltage.

Adjustments made.  This batch was 1L using a silver Anode and a thin copper wire cathode.  1mL of 1 molar solution added.  Distilled water heated to 180F (probably not necessary for 20ppm ??).  Added 10 drops of corn syrup solution a short time after the current was turned on.  5mA for 1 hour in the dark.

Photos of results.  This is very clear and a good yellow color.  There is some change in the appearance of the color near the top shown in the close up.  I assume some blue light is not completely absorbed due to lack of density??  Is this normal?

Comments appreciated.

Offline kephra

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Re: Question about very low currents (from Brazil)
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2020, 12:39:45 PM »
Well done.  That looks really good!
Colloidal Silver is only a bargain if you make it yourself.

Offline cfnisbet

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Re: Question about very low currents (from Brazil)
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2021, 10:59:15 AM »
Yes; got it spot-on!

Offline imcool

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Re: Question about very low currents (from Brazil)
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2021, 11:36:41 PM »
The electrolyte (1 molar sodium carbonate solution) does a few things.

It lowers the resistance of the water so you can get reasonable amounts of current through it.

It prevents silver from plating out on the cathode which is a big problem without it because the electrolysis cell is basically an electroplating cell so without the electrolyte, you're plating all the silver you pull into solution on the cathode and making nothing or nearly nothing other than a silver plated cathode.

It raises the PH of the water into the 8+PH range which is required for the reducing agent to work properly.  Reducing sugars only work in an alkaline environment and a lot of distilled water thats on the shelf absorbs CO2 from the air which lowers the PH (dissolved CO2 is known as carbolic acid).

So in a word, yes, with the electrolyte, things will change for the better. You will be able to get your desired constant current from the very beginning of the run.

Read the articles as has been suggested.
thx