Author Topic: CG using stainless pot + soda water in 15minutes  (Read 4649 times)

xerum525

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CG using stainless pot + soda water in 15minutes
« on: April 13, 2012, 04:22:34 PM »
Hi colloidal gold Forum,

This is my first post (aside from intro). I have a question.

First i am very happy to be here as it is seem the best forum where there is no ego, no people trying to sell products and everyone is in sharing and learning spirit.

Without yet having read the 1000's of posts here has any one used the following method to make stable colloidal gold successfully.

The reason why i like the method below is it is damn fast. But unfortunately not very successfully.

Equipment
1. stainless still pot ( 1 litre)
2. 100 VDC with 2 AMPS current supply
3. 1/2 litre distill water + 1/2 litre soda water
4. add 10 mls of mineral water
5. add 3 drops of H2O2 3% after 10 min

In approx 15min you have 1 litre of colloidal gold (guessing 50 ppm - 100 ppm)

I know the above maybe brutal but it is fast however unless you drinking the colloidal gold quickly it has fall out majority of times after 24-28 hrs.

Any thoughts ideas how to refine this process to make it more stable would be appreciated. I read about the cinnamon method and i like this as i read some scientist discovered this a few years back to make colloidal gold using cinnamon.

I have attached some pictures.

Regards
Xerum


Offline kephra

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Re: Colloidal Gold using stainless pot + soda water in 15minutes
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2012, 04:34:00 PM »
Hi colloidal gold Forum,

This is my first post (aside from intro). I have a question.

First i am very happy to be here as it is seem the best forum where there is no ego, no people trying to sell products and everyone is in sharing and learning spirit.

Without yet having read the 1000's of posts here has any one used the following method to make stable colloidal gold successfully.

The reason why i like the method below is it is damn fast. But unfortunately not very successfully.

Equipment
1. stainless still pot ( 1 litre)
2. 100 VDC with 2 AMPS current supply
3. 1/2 litre distill water + 1/2 litre soda water
4. add 10 mls of mineral water
5. add 3 drops of H2O2 3% after 10 min

In approx 15min you have 1 litre of colloidal gold (guessing 50 ppm - 100 ppm)
Ok,  you have a lot going wrong here.
First, forget the soda water.  Soda water contains carbonic acid, and gold will not react with carbonic acid.  The only thing gold will react with (except cyanide and aqua regia) is chlorine. 

Second, forget the peroxide.  It is too harsh a reducing agent, and leads to large particle sizes.

Third, that's a lot of power, perhaps too much.

Fourth, mineral water has a lot of unknown ingredients which will harm your process.

You need sodium chloride so the electrolysis can produce gold chloride.  Nothing else works.  I know there is a certain individual selling gold  machines and telling people to use soda water.  However, most people can only get it to work at all with certain brands of soda water.  This is because some of the brands have residual chlorine in them from purifying the water.  It is chlorine which makes it work.

Also, you need heat.  To make good CG, your process must be kept near boiling temperature.

So electrolysis of a gold anode with salt makes gold chloride.

Then the gold chloride has to be reduced to gold metal nanoparticles.  For over 50 years,  this has been sodium citrate, but I have found other materials work even better.  Cinnamon extract, maltodextrin etc.  Read the articles I have posted.
 

Quote
I know the above maybe brutal but it is fast however unless you drinking the colloidal gold quickly it has fall out majority of times after 24-28 hrs.

Any thoughts ideas how to refine this process to make it more stable would be appreciated. I read about the cinnamon method and i like this as i read some scientist discovered this a few years back to make colloidal gold using cinnamon.

I have attached some pictures.

Regards
Xerum
Colloidal Silver is only a bargain if you make it yourself.

xerum525

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Re: Colloidal Gold using stainless pot + soda water in 15minutes
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2012, 04:44:27 PM »
Thank you Kephra, much appreciated.

I will heed your advice and begin refining my practice. Normally i make perfer colloidal gold using 15,000V HVAC. This is the purest form as it is nothing but distilled water and gold electrodes. However the process takes many hours and is painful and low ppm.

HVAC colloidal silver is fast. one litre of pure colloidal silver in 20 minutes. However colloidal gold not so.

I needed to find a way to make colloidal gold fast. The person selling these machines which i can not afford (and personally i do not trust) is where i got the idea of high voltage power DC and soda water. You saw my setup it is quiet brutal.

Do you suggest i maintain same power or reduce down to 70VDC? or something much less?

Again thank you and i am sure i will have more questions.

Xerum
« Last Edit: April 13, 2012, 04:50:14 PM by Xerum525 »

xerum525

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Re: Colloidal Gold using stainless pot + soda water in 15minutes
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2012, 04:47:00 PM »
oh - forgot to add - the reason i add the H2O2 as i found without i could not get colloidal gold or if i did it was bad colloidal gold.

It seems the H2O2 helped me get some success. But now i learned that the issue is the soda water and maybe nothing to do with H2o2.

Thank You

Offline kephra

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Re: Colloidal Gold using stainless pot + soda water in 15minutes
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2012, 05:03:17 PM »
Quote
Do you suggest i maintain same power or reduce down to 70VDC? or something much less?
I suggest something lower, and a current (measured) of around 250 to 350 ma.

I also suggest this recipe for the electrolyte:

1/2 level teaspoon table salt
1/2 level teaspoon sodium citrate powder
1 tablespoon cinnamon extract
1 gal (or 4 liters) distilled water.



Colloidal Silver is only a bargain if you make it yourself.

xerum525

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Re: Colloidal Gold using stainless pot + soda water in 15minutes
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2012, 05:06:41 PM »
Thank you Kephra.

Correct me if i am wrong  - current of 350 ma would take like several hours to batch small qty of CG?

Offline kephra

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Re: Colloidal Gold using stainless pot + soda water in 15minutes
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2012, 05:11:39 PM »
No, its much faster than that.

With the method you are using, most of the current is wasted making hydrogen and oxygen.  A more efficient chemistry needs less current.

See http://www.cgcsforum.org/index.php/topic,668.0.html
Colloidal Silver is only a bargain if you make it yourself.

xerum525

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Re: Colloidal Gold using stainless pot + soda water in 15minutes
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2012, 05:22:56 PM »
Thank You Kephra.

I do not have sodium citrate - however i have sodium bicarb and citric acid powder.

I know i can make sodium citrate from these but am unsure of the mix/ratio to add of these two ingredients.

I sometimes for health make magnesium citrate from mixing magnesium carbonate (1 tspn) and citric acid powder (1 tspn) in a glass of boiling water.

However the mag citrate never tasting right and i assume the mix i am using is not correct ratio.

Any chemistry help you can provide with above is appreciated.

Regards


Offline kephra

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Re: Colloidal Gold using stainless pot + soda water in 15minutes
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2012, 06:25:25 PM »
The reaction is:

Citric acid + baking soda  gives carbon dioxide + water + trisodium citrate

H3C6H5O7 + 3 NaHCO3 → 3 CO2 + 3 H2O + Na3C6H5O7

Notice it takes 3 molecules of baking soda + 1 molecule of citric acid to make 1 molecule of trisodium citrate.

So the molecular weight of citric acid monohydrate is 210 grams
The molecular weight of sodium bicarbonate is 84 grams.

The ratio by weight is then 210/84 or 2.5 grams of citric acid per gram of baking soda.  <--Kephra screwed up!
The ratio by weight is then 252/210 or 1.2 grams of baking soda per gram of citric acid.

To figure it out volumetrically is more difficult because the weight of a given volume depends on the crystal size which determines the packing ratio for the particles of chemical, and also on how much the chemical is compressed.

A milligram scale is a good investment.

Edited to correct ratio error.
Colloidal Silver is only a bargain if you make it yourself.

Offline cfnisbet

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Re: Colloidal Gold using stainless pot + soda water in 15minutes
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2012, 09:41:23 PM »
Kephra, it's a really long time since I did chemistry at school; I do not fully understand your ratios.

I thought that the molecular weight of citric acid is 210g (agreed), molecular weight of sodium bicarb is 84g (agreed) and if three molecules of baking soda combines with one of citric acid, then I thought it would take 210g of citric acid to combine with 3 x 84 = 252g of bicarb.

Where is my understanding going wrong? I am sure I am making a simple error of understanding in this, and I have just bought 5g of powdered gold chloride, so I'm going to have to calculate this myself. The cost of this gold chloride is so high, I need to get it right first time.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2012, 09:43:07 PM by cfnisbet »

Offline kephra

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Re: Colloidal Gold using stainless pot + soda water in 15minutes
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2012, 09:44:49 PM »
Oh, you are quite right.  Its my mistake, not yours.
Colloidal Silver is only a bargain if you make it yourself.

Offline cfnisbet

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Re: Colloidal Gold using stainless pot + soda water in 15minutes
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2012, 09:52:06 PM »
Thank you very much. I simply must get my chemistry notes out again. I am finding that the older I get, the more certain it is that I will learn (or re-learn) something new every day.

My learning curve in colloidal gold is about to begin...

xerum525

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Re: Colloidal Gold using stainless pot + soda water in 15minutes
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2012, 01:51:08 AM »
Thank You Gentlemen for your help.

Unfortunately i am very poor with chemistry and know very little.

I would like to learn to calculate for mixing magnesium carbonate with citric acid kitchen powder to make magnesium citrate.

If you can help me here would appreciated.